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Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities - update from San Francisko

Posted: 3 Jul 2019, 9:07pm
by mercalia

Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Posted: 4 Jul 2019, 9:48am
by Cunobelin
[XAP]Bob wrote:With a 98% false positive rate, and a distinct bias against ethnic minorities (becauseball current facial recognition tech currently has such a bias)...


It doesn’t help get he bad guys... and it won’t do so any time soon.



Not sure that "bias" is the right word.

Firstly there is a limitation in technology, in that features "stand out more" in some ethnic groups. For instance, eyebrows on a white face are higher contrast than on a West Indian or African face. Not a bias, simply a problem with the technology

Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Posted: 4 Jul 2019, 4:33pm
by Pastychomper
Cunobelin wrote:Not sure that "bias" is the right word.

Firstly there is a limitation in technology, in that features "stand out more" in some ethnic groups. For instance, eyebrows on a white face are higher contrast than on a West Indian or African face. Not a bias, simply a problem with the technology


"Bias" has some unfortunate connotations, but it is the word used in scientific circles for exactly the kind of limitation described. If an analytical instrument tends to read 'high' or 'low' in certain situations it's biased in those situations. In that context, bias doesn't mean the instrument or its user is doing it deliberately, or that they dislike anyone or anything. It's purely a tendency to misread in a certain direction. Those using the instrument should at be aware of the bias, and preferably do something to compensate.

Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Posted: 4 Jul 2019, 10:32pm
by Cunobelin
Pastychomper wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:Not sure that "bias" is the right word.

Firstly there is a limitation in technology, in that features "stand out more" in some ethnic groups. For instance, eyebrows on a white face are higher contrast than on a West Indian or African face. Not a bias, simply a problem with the technology


"Bias" has some unfortunate connotations, but it is the word used in scientific circles for exactly the kind of limitation described. If an analytical instrument tends to read 'high' or 'low' in certain situations it's biased in those situations. In that context, bias doesn't mean the instrument or its user is doing it deliberately, or that they dislike anyone or anything. It's purely a tendency to misread in a certain direction. Those using the instrument should at be aware of the bias, and preferably do something to compensate.


I agree that is why I used the term "right word" .. there could be some something better

Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Posted: 5 Jul 2019, 8:40am
by mercalia
what would happen if you wore a balaclava in the testing zone? what about a full burqua? descrimination?

Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Posted: 5 Jul 2019, 2:07pm
by Mick F
I can see that comedy false noses and moustache sales will go through the roof! :lol:

Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Posted: 5 Jul 2019, 9:46pm
by RickH
The "bias" seems to be in the imbalance in the data that the software was "learning" from - using mostly white, male samples.

"About 130 million US adults are already in face recognition databases," [Timnit Gebru] told the AI for Good Summit in Geneva in May. "But the original datasets are mostly white and male, so biased against darker skin types - there are huge error rates by skin type and gender." (link)

Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Posted: 30 Jul 2019, 10:08am
by mercalia
an interesting article that explains how it works

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... GTUK_email

Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Posted: 14 Aug 2019, 12:13am
by mercalia
It seems that KingsX London & private environs has a facial recognition system

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-49333352

This is what some of the cameras look like

Avigilon H4 camera.JPG
Avigilon H4 camera


Well I think I will be wearing my wide brimmed hat and sunglasses when I am that a ways

Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Posted: 16 Aug 2019, 7:38am
by Sweep
Apologies if also asked.
I assume that it's not illegal to wear a mask/obscure your face in public?
(If so would seem to discriminate against atheists and other folk not of certain religious persuasions)
Also, if challenged by some officious bod in that area I assume they have no authority to make you remove it?
I imagine that normal security in that area is handled by private contractors.
When abike in london not in the heights of summer I often wear or carry a buff.

Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Posted: 16 Aug 2019, 8:09am
by Bonefishblues
Stop and search is now back in vogue so someone actively seeking to obscure their face may well be a target.

Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Posted: 16 Aug 2019, 8:17am
by Sweep
I would have no great issue being searched by a proper policeperson if done respectfully.
But I assume that private security bods have no powers to make me do anything except possibly to leave?
And could hardly stop me returning.

Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Posted: 16 Aug 2019, 10:21am
by Bonefishblues
I'm guessing not, but I bet they have a hotline to proper plod!

Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Posted: 16 Aug 2019, 10:59am
by Sweep
Bonefishblues wrote:I'm guessing not, but I bet they have a hotline to proper plod!

Quite possibly.
They are seriously overstretched in london though and might not be overly keen to hop to it for the shopping mall operatives.

Re: Facial Recognition by the Authorities

Posted: 16 Aug 2019, 2:06pm
by mercalia
anyone know where you can get a rubber Boris face mask?

it seems that there is going to be an formal investigation whats going on at KingsX.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-49357759