I drove a normal car yesterday

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.
User avatar
squeaker
Posts: 3627
Joined: 12 Jan 2007, 11:43pm
Location: Sussex

Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby squeaker » 27 May 2019, 10:39am

Mick F wrote:Valves are electrically driven too, so no cam belt or chain.
Really? :shock: My, things have moved on. I knew valve timing was electrically controlled, but thought the heavy mechanical work was still done by the camshaft... :wink:
"42"

Bonefishblues
Posts: 7983
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Bonefishblues » 27 May 2019, 10:46am

Mick F wrote:
pwa wrote:My Golf has the light switch on the dash to the right and it isn't a problem. I've never thought of it as an issue.

It also has the arrow thing to indicate when it thinks i should change gear, and I ignore it because half of the time it is wrong. Like when I select third because I see a 30 sign ahead and want to slow down and stay slowed. I also do the same sort of thing in slow moving traffic so that every time I lift my foot off the gas I get an immediate braking effect even before my foot reaches the brake pedal. The arrow thing on the dash doesn't understand that sort of thing.
Never driven a VW.

Oh yes I have!
We rented a Beetle in circa 1975 from Hertz in Edinburgh.



As for gears, I always state the mantra about speed limits.
3rd in a 30, and 4th in a 40.

Can't do that with an automatic, and obviously can't do that with a Hybrid or EV.

Yes you can Mick

User avatar
Lance Dopestrong
Posts: 1227
Joined: 18 Sep 2014, 1:52pm

Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Lance Dopestrong » 27 May 2019, 11:21am

squeaker wrote:
Mick F wrote:Valves are electrically driven too, so no cam belt or chain.
Really? :shock: My, things have moved on. I knew valve timing was electrically controlled, but thought the heavy mechanical work was still done by the camshaft... :wink:


Piezo-electric valves and electro-mechanical valves have yet to make it beyond prototypes. Was it LaunchPoint who came closest, but still never made it to market? Honda and Lotus had camless hydraulic valves working in the 80's, but they never attempted to bring them to market. Leaving two strokes and wankel motors aside, valves are still mechanically actuated, albeit those mechanical actuators themselfes are now often subject to a degree of electronic governing.
https://themediocrecyclist.home.blog
Self employed MIAS L5.B Instructor.
Warwickshire Lowland Rescue Bike lead.
IPMBA certified member.
Cyctech C2 hammer and crowbar bodger.
Lapsed CTC Ride Leader, amateur hour stuff from the fun old days.

User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 49156
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Mick F » 27 May 2019, 2:28pm

squeaker wrote:
Mick F wrote:Valves are electrically driven too, so no cam belt or chain.
Really? :shock: My, things have moved on. I knew valve timing was electrically controlled, but thought the heavy mechanical work was still done by the camshaft... :wink:

As far as I understand it, there isn't a camshaft at all.
If there were, how would it be driven?

The engine in our Yaris Hybrid, as well as the Prius, changes from being a simulated Atkinson Cycle to an Otto Cycle as required.
All seemless and unknown to the driver.

This cannot be done with a "variable" camshaft. Better minds than I could explain it no doubt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkinson_cycle
Mick F. Cornwall

Bonefishblues
Posts: 7983
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Bonefishblues » 27 May 2019, 2:38pm

Mick F wrote:
squeaker wrote:
Mick F wrote:Valves are electrically driven too, so no cam belt or chain.
Really? :shock: My, things have moved on. I knew valve timing was electrically controlled, but thought the heavy mechanical work was still done by the camshaft... :wink:

As far as I understand it, there isn't a camshaft at all.
If there were, how would it be driven?

The engine in our Yaris Hybrid, as well as the Prius, changes from being a simulated Atkinson Cycle to an Otto Cycle as required.
All seemless and unknown to the driver.

This cannot be done with a "variable" camshaft. Better minds than I could explain it no doubt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkinson_cycle


2019 engine

http://2018carontheroad.com/wp-content/ ... rius-1.jpg

User avatar
Lance Dopestrong
Posts: 1227
Joined: 18 Sep 2014, 1:52pm

Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Lance Dopestrong » 27 May 2019, 5:07pm

Mick F wrote:
squeaker wrote:
Mick F wrote:Valves are electrically driven too, so no cam belt or chain.
Really? :shock: My, things have moved on. I knew valve timing was electrically controlled, but thought the heavy mechanical work was still done by the camshaft... :wink:

As far as I understand it, there isn't a camshaft at all.
If there were, how would it be driven?

The engine in our Yaris Hybrid, as well as the Prius, changes from being a simulated Atkinson Cycle to an Otto Cycle as required.
All seemless and unknown to the driver.

This cannot be done with a "variable" camshaft. Better minds than I could explain it no doubt.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkinson_cycle


The Toyota system doesn't actually mimic the Atkinson Cycle that closely, as without the conrod-crank linkages it isn't possible to easily mimic the duration, particularly during the ignition phase of the cycle. However, in a true camless system - such as the Lotus hydraulic valves - it would be possible to faithfully mimic the short induction/compression and long ignition/exhaust phases while using a conventional crank. However, making it commercially viable is another matter entirely.
https://themediocrecyclist.home.blog
Self employed MIAS L5.B Instructor.
Warwickshire Lowland Rescue Bike lead.
IPMBA certified member.
Cyctech C2 hammer and crowbar bodger.
Lapsed CTC Ride Leader, amateur hour stuff from the fun old days.

thirdcrank
Posts: 28789
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby thirdcrank » 28 May 2019, 5:05pm

Mike Sales wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:
francovendee wrote:. Like trains and modern signalling system , it will enable more cars to be on a given stretch of road. It should end road rage and tail gating 8)

I'd think there would be whole strings of cars tailgating :lol:


My heart sinks at this vision of roads packed with even more cars.
I can't imagine the chaotic result of a cyclist mixed into this.
As T.C. says, the result could be a banning of incompatible elements like us.


There's an article about the type of lobbying by the auto trades marketing people in today's Daily Telegraph.
Tesla owners call on EU to repeal 'crippling' new self-driving rules
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/ ... ing-rules/

Unfortunately, it's behind their paywall and I've not been able to find the same story or a version of it elsewhere.

pwa
Posts: 12364
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby pwa » 28 Jun 2020, 8:14am

Bonefishblues wrote:
pwa wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:What sort of budget, age etc (in fact, much the same questions as we ask new cyclists who ask for bike recommendations! :D )

£10k or less would be best as we are helping our kids to buy homes and want to keep other spending down. I'm very much out of love with VW engines at the moment due to a string of expensive problems with a couple of diesel engines. And I think the mpg advantage of diesel is not as great as it once was. A cleaner, efficient petrol engine looks more appealing. We have a very small car already, so this would be the larger car for when we take four people over a distance or pick up long DIY materials etc.

If I can build up some faith in the reliability of our Golf again I may not need another car but it has let us down a few times.

I'm a fan of Toyota hybrids, as Mick knows :D

How about their Golf-sized Auris, haggling on these to get a good, low mileage example for around your top budget?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search ... egories=on

Or its bigger brother that I used to run is slipping towards your budget based on the same search parameters:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search ... egories=on

Because Toyota they really will not let you down, and they are lovely to drive, and very very economical - more so than the equivalent diesels in the real world as opposed to the test lab.

Well, more than a year has passed but I have now bought the replacement for the diesel Golf and I must thank you for getting me to look at the Auris Hybrid. We have bought one, a 2017 hatchback (decided the estate was bigger than we now need) with just under 15 000 miles on the clock and on the short drive to my mother's house yesterday to drop her shopping off I got a 70 mpg reading, which is excellent for that particular journey. It isn't a car that excels at long motorway journeys, but we don't do many of those. I think with our pattern of use we will be using less fuel, and the fuel will be petrol rather than diesel, so that is a saving too. And it will be cleaner. Thanks again.

Bonefishblues
Posts: 7983
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Bonefishblues » 28 Jun 2020, 8:19am

pwa wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:
pwa wrote:£10k or less would be best as we are helping our kids to buy homes and want to keep other spending down. I'm very much out of love with VW engines at the moment due to a string of expensive problems with a couple of diesel engines. And I think the mpg advantage of diesel is not as great as it once was. A cleaner, efficient petrol engine looks more appealing. We have a very small car already, so this would be the larger car for when we take four people over a distance or pick up long DIY materials etc.

If I can build up some faith in the reliability of our Golf again I may not need another car but it has let us down a few times.

I'm a fan of Toyota hybrids, as Mick knows :D

How about their Golf-sized Auris, haggling on these to get a good, low mileage example for around your top budget?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search ... egories=on

Or its bigger brother that I used to run is slipping towards your budget based on the same search parameters:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search ... egories=on

Because Toyota they really will not let you down, and they are lovely to drive, and very very economical - more so than the equivalent diesels in the real world as opposed to the test lab.

Well, more than a year has passed but I have now bought the replacement for the diesel Golf and I must thank you for getting me to look at the Auris Hybrid. We have bought one, a 2017 hatchback (decided the estate was bigger than we now need) with just under 15 000 miles on the clock and on the short drive to my mother's house yesterday to drop her shopping off I got a 70 mpg reading, which is excellent for that particular journey. It isn't a car that excels at long motorway journeys, but we don't do many of those. I think with our pattern of use we will be using less fuel, and the fuel will be petrol rather than diesel, so that is a saving too. And it will be cleaner. Thanks again.

That's a couple of Toyota hybrid purchases after my recommending them. I should be on commission :D

In the real world they do everything that the average motorist wants really very well indeed, don't they.

millimole
Posts: 578
Joined: 18 Feb 2007, 5:41pm
Location: Leicester

Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby millimole » 28 Jun 2020, 8:36am

Bonefishblues wrote:Because Toyota they really will not let you down, and they are lovely to drive, and very very economical - more so than the equivalent diesels

In the real world they do everything that the average motorist wants really very well indeed, don't they.

Our current car is a Toyota CHR which does pretty much all we want, looks good, and is very fuel efficient.
I'd say that overall its the car we've been happiest with out of the last three or four we've had.
I think some of the 'user interface' is weird - the dash display is a confusing rubiks cube of options, and the satnav /audio is painfully slow to respond, but I can forgive that for the relaxed nature of the driving experience.
Overall we get about 57mpg, mainly suburban driving.
I can get my bike in the back if I have to, but having a towbar is my preference (it's a pity they don't do a fold away one like we had on our Renault Kadjar)
Leicester; Riding my Hetchins since 1971; Audaxing on my Dawes; Riding to work on a Decathlon Hoprider

User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 49156
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Mick F » 28 Jun 2020, 10:33am

Bonefishblues wrote:That's a couple of Toyota hybrid purchases after my recommending them. I should be on commission :D

In the real world they do everything that the average motorist wants really very well indeed, don't they.
Thanks muchly. :D
Very very very impressed with our Yaris.

Drove down to Helston and back last week. 140miles and recorded 65mpg.
The Yaris Hybrid is better in towns and traffic than on long drives at motorway speeds.
We often get 70odd mpg locally because the electric drive will take over so long as you're doing under 40mph and drive gently.
Mick F. Cornwall

francovendee
Posts: 1423
Joined: 5 May 2009, 6:32am

Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby francovendee » 28 Jun 2020, 11:06am

We can certainly vouch for the reliability of Toyota. Our Yaris, 2008 but not hybrid was bought new and to date, apart from servicing and tyres, we've only had one repair needed. This was a rear wheel bearing and was eye wateringly expensive. I've always had cars where you just changed the actual bearing but now it comes as a unit. Still not bad in the 12 years we've owned it.
For us the purchase of a hybrid doesn't make much sense as the majority of our journeys are of 50+ miles. Shopping is done on the bike most weeks. :D

Oldjohnw
Posts: 4434
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Oldjohnw » 28 Jun 2020, 12:41pm

I get 70+ mpg with my 2015 VW Golf on motorways at 65-70mph. I rarely have the pleasure as I only do such a journey when visiting my daughter in the West Midlands. Overall I get 56mpg. If you have to have a car at least use as little fuel as possible.

I pay the same 'road tax' as I do with my bike. And I never apply the handbrake because there isn't one.
John

User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 49156
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Mick F » 28 Jun 2020, 1:35pm

Oldjohnw wrote:And I never apply the handbrake because there isn't one.
Explain please.

Vehicles must have two braking systems, so if you don't have a handbrake, what do you have?
Mick F. Cornwall

Oldjohnw
Posts: 4434
Joined: 16 Oct 2018, 4:23am
Location: Northumberland

Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Oldjohnw » 28 Jun 2020, 1:37pm

Mick F wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:And I never apply the handbrake because there isn't one.
Explain please.

Vehicles must have two braking systems, so if you don't have a handbrake, what do you have?


It's a parking brake which operates with the brake pedal when the car is stationary. There is a small button which can separately administer the brake. There is an assist for starting on a hill.

Works perfectly.
John