I drove a normal car yesterday

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Mick F
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Mick F » 28 Jun 2020, 1:39pm

Thanks.
Interesting.
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Cowsham » 28 Jun 2020, 1:40pm

Mick F wrote:Yesterday, I was driving Daughter1's car. It's a Ford B Max with a manual gearbox.
Good car, drove nicely, and was comfortable. No complaints whatsoever ............................. except ....................

Having owned and driven a Toyota Hybrid for the past couple of years, it's surprising to me that all cars don't have a modern automatic system like ours. Driving a manual car seems very old-fashioned, having to depress a clutch and move a gearstick to the correct gear. This day and age, it should all be automatically operated.

Driving our Hybrid, all you have is a Go pedal and a brake. Simple and easy, and I would never go back to a clutch and gear stick.

Why haven't gearboxes evolved? They are no different now to when they were first invented. Synchro, yes, even on 1st gear these days, but still basically the same.


Totally agree.

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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Cowsham » 28 Jun 2020, 1:41pm

pwa wrote:I think it is still true that driven carefully a manual will give better mpg than an automatic. And I use staying in a relatively low gear as a way of avoiding drifting over speed limits. Personally, I've driven both and have no preference overall.


Wrong!

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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Cowsham » 28 Jun 2020, 1:42pm

Cyril Haearn wrote:Surely an automatic can be made to use the right gear at all times, unlike the average driver, so an automatic could use less fuel


Right and the new ones do.

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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Cowsham » 28 Jun 2020, 1:42pm

pwa wrote:
Cyril Haearn wrote:Surely an automatic can be made to use the right gear at all times, unlike the average driver, so an automatic could use less fuel

You would have thought so but I have not heard of that happening yet.


Not listening.

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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Cowsham » 28 Jun 2020, 1:45pm

PDQ Mobile wrote:AIUI the reason an automatic is (was?) less efficient is to do with the less efficient transfer of power through a torque converter, rather than through a conventional clutch.
Though additional wieght is probably also a factor.

I am a lover of manual myself. Died in the wool.
An enjoyment of the interplay and use of clutch and gears.
For working vehicles in steep terrain, especially towing,the ability to select a gear in advance of certain situations seems an advantage.

In overtaking the ability to be in the lower gear in readyness rather than depend on "kickdown", with the attendant small delay, is also a plus.



Ancient history.

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Mick F
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Mick F » 28 Jun 2020, 3:53pm

The good thing about an electric vehicle or a hybrid, is that there are no gears.
Overtake?
Get away quick from a junction?
Just hit the Go pedal and it's instant.

Our Yaris is rated at 100bhp, but .........
Engine 74bhp
Electric motors 60bhp
Equals 134bhp but you don't get that continuously forever but you get all that straight away as you press the pedal to the metal.
Best car we've ever owned as an overtaker, and it'll beat most performance cars off the line in the traffic light grand prix.

Instantaneous power with no fuss whatsoever.
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Morzedec
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Morzedec » 28 Jun 2020, 4:52pm

I get over a million miles to the gallon; but then, I haven't got a car ..........

Happy days,

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Mick F
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Mick F » 28 Jun 2020, 7:21pm

Million miles of what to the gallon?

I drink beer.
Maybe a gallon every few days. :D
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Cunobelin » 29 Jun 2020, 6:34am

pwa wrote:I think it is still true that driven carefully a manual will give better mpg than an automatic. And I use staying in a relatively low gear as a way of avoiding drifting over speed limits. Personally, I've driven both and have no preference overall.



Trouble is how far to go.

MIne has an "Eco" mode that alters the driver's input to be more effective. For instance, it will slow acceleration to be more fuel-efficient. It aklso has a "Sport mode" which is the opposite and allows faster acceleration.

But why stop there?

It also decides when the lights go on or off, when the windscreen wipers activate, whether to use a full-beam or dip, recognises speed signs, has a speed limiter to keep you in the speed limit, a cruise control to keep you at a set speed, lane recognition that bleeps if you drift acros the lanes, a driver alertness alarm, brakes that snense downhills to stop you accelerating on downhills and also parks itself.

I find myself switching things off, to feel that I am actually driving the thing!


... and back to the main topic, has a manual override on the automatic, so you can effectively choose gears if you want to

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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby al_yrpal » 29 Jun 2020, 7:17am

Automatics with torque converters will never achieve such low mpg as can be achieved by manuals. This is because of slip in the torque converter which is converted into heat. Fashion often dictates things like this. Go to the US and stick shift is unusual. Go to Europe and bikes with drops are less common. Its all in the mind....
I would agree that auto is preferable, but I still enjoy driving my rusty heap with its manual gearbox. :lol: Fully loaded hills are a challenge, even with a 2 litre flat four boxer

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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Bonefishblues » 29 Jun 2020, 8:16am

Cunobelin wrote:
pwa wrote:I think it is still true that driven carefully a manual will give better mpg than an automatic. And I use staying in a relatively low gear as a way of avoiding drifting over speed limits. Personally, I've driven both and have no preference overall.



Trouble is how far to go.

MIne has an "Eco" mode that alters the driver's input to be more effective. For instance, it will slow acceleration to be more fuel-efficient. It aklso has a "Sport mode" which is the opposite and allows faster acceleration.

But why stop there?

It also decides when the lights go on or off, when the windscreen wipers activate, whether to use a full-beam or dip, recognises speed signs, has a speed limiter to keep you in the speed limit, a cruise control to keep you at a set speed, lane recognition that bleeps if you drift acros the lanes, a driver alertness alarm, brakes that snense downhills to stop you accelerating on downhills and also parks itself.

I find myself switching things off, to feel that I am actually driving the thing!


... and back to the main topic, has a manual override on the automatic, so you can effectively choose gears if you want to

A conventional torque convertor auto has losses a manual box doesn't. A CVT (or CVT-alike, such as Toyota's system) is much more efficient, with the benefit that it's designed to operate the engine in its peak efficiency band, and should be much cleverer than its driver, by and large.

But the biggest determinant of efficiency is always the nut behind the wheel.

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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Cyril Haearn » 29 Jun 2020, 9:36am

Surely people can design machines that are better than people
Dunno if there are losses in an automatic gearbox. But most drivers do not use the gears correctly, a machine could be programmed to do so

Had a motor with five gears, fourth was quite high, I am ashamed to admit I sometimes realised I had been in fourth for a while when I should have been in fifth

Some motors have six or seven gears, that is too much for the human brain :?
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Mick F
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Mick F » 29 Jun 2020, 10:41am

I have ninety gears on my Moulton. :wink:
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby peetee » 29 Jun 2020, 6:04pm

I have been doing some experimentation with fuel consumption on my regular drive. The route is 15 miles, I live within 1/2 Mile of the trunk road that takes me to my destination. If I drive at a equivalent pace to other traffic, so 70/60 mph as the road dictates, I average 54mpg. If I drive as economically as possible without causing undue delay for other traffic, freewheeling where possible, gently accelerating and anticipating junctions and traffic movements to maintain momentum etc etc I can usually get the fuel consumption down to 63mpg and on one trip I managed 67mpg.
Not bad for a 15 year old 100,000 mile car.
Current status report:
Back on two wheels in deepest Pastyland and loving every minute. Mission: to enjoy big, bad hills again.