I drove a normal car yesterday

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Cowsham
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Cowsham » 29 Jun 2020, 7:26pm

Ic engines biggest problem is that they make power over a very limited Rev range so they need an extra pile of rotating parts to extend that Rev range to the wheels. The best solution to the problem is get rid of the ic engine and use an electric motor where torque can be adjusted by the inverter or stepper motor driver. The next best is replace the gearbox with a cvt.
I don't believe in hybrids -- if you look at the efficiency of a straight cvt yaris ( ice to cvt ) as compared to the hybrid version you'll find the straight cvt more efficient on fuel.

Converting chemical energy to mechanical then back to chemical then electrical and back again to mechanical doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Better with a fully electric car or ic cvt car. Gearbox should be a thing of the past.

As someone has already pointed out the Williams F1 team tested cvt in 1992 ( I think ) and it was 2 seconds a lap quicker than a manual car but it got banned cos it was too quick. A bit bonkers as F1 is meant to be the blue ribbon of car races and the driver of progress and development.

Bonefishblues
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Bonefishblues » 29 Jun 2020, 8:02pm

peetee wrote:I have been doing some experimentation with fuel consumption on my regular drive. The route is 15 miles, I live within 1/2 Mile of the trunk road that takes me to my destination. If I drive at a equivalent pace to other traffic, so 70/60 mph as the road dictates, I average 54mpg. If I drive as economically as possible without causing undue delay for other traffic, freewheeling where possible, gently accelerating and anticipating junctions and traffic movements to maintain momentum etc etc I can usually get the fuel consumption down to 63mpg and on one trip I managed 67mpg.
Not bad for a 15 year old 100,000 mile car.

Which is which model?

peetee
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Location: Cornwall

Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby peetee » 29 Jun 2020, 9:14pm

Polo 1.9 TDi. Did my research to find the most economical option. Its pre-DPF Which sounds like an environmental disaster but given these filters need regularly clearing out with a good thrash up a motorway I figured that non fitted cars must be better if you don’t ever have to drive them hard.
Current status report:
Back on two wheels in deepest Pastyland and loving every minute. Mission: to enjoy big, bad hills again.

Bonefishblues
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Bonefishblues » 29 Jun 2020, 9:20pm

peetee wrote:Polo 1.9 TDi. Did my research to find the most economical option. Its pre-DPF Which sounds like an environmental disaster but given these filters need regularly clearing out with a good thrash up a motorway I figured that non fitted cars must be better if you don’t ever have to drive them hard.

1.9Pdi I think. I can believe those numbers, and it will run at least to the end of time, or perhaps a little beyond.

peetee
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby peetee » 29 Jun 2020, 9:59pm

Bonefishblues wrote:
peetee wrote:Polo 1.9 TDi. Did my research to find the most economical option. Its pre-DPF Which sounds like an environmental disaster but given these filters need regularly clearing out with a good thrash up a motorway I figured that non fitted cars must be better if you don’t ever have to drive them hard.

1.9Pdi I think. I can believe those numbers, and it will run at least to the end of time, or perhaps a little beyond.


Yes it is, although not according to the badge. My previous car owned 10 years before was a Passat with the pre-Pdi engine and despite being bigger was even more economical.
Current status report:
Back on two wheels in deepest Pastyland and loving every minute. Mission: to enjoy big, bad hills again.

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[XAP]Bob
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby [XAP]Bob » 29 Jun 2020, 10:09pm

Cowsham wrote:Ic engines biggest problem is that they make power over a very limited Rev range so they need an extra pile of rotating parts to extend that Rev range to the wheels. The best solution to the problem is get rid of the ic engine and use an electric motor where torque can be adjusted by the inverter or stepper motor driver. The next best is replace the gearbox with a cvt.
I don't believe in hybrids -- if you look at the efficiency of a straight cvt yaris ( ice to cvt ) as compared to the hybrid version you'll find the straight cvt more efficient on fuel.

Converting chemical energy to mechanical then back to chemical then electrical and back again to mechanical doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Better with a fully electric car or ic cvt car. Gearbox should be a thing of the past.

As someone has already pointed out the Williams F1 team tested cvt in 1992 ( I think ) and it was 2 seconds a lap quicker than a manual car but it got banned cos it was too quick. A bit bonkers as F1 is meant to be the blue ribbon of car races and the driver of progress and development.


No - F1 is very tightly controlled to limit speeds for the sake of safety. There isn't room at tracks to have enough runoff and barrier for a car that can corner at 200mph, even if the engineers could make it.


Slightly off topic though - the phev market does make sense to me. 35-40 miles of range is enough for many people's daily driving, and the ready availablity of a chemical topup for the rare long days is a comfort blanket.
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Bonefishblues
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Bonefishblues » 29 Jun 2020, 10:45pm

peetee wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:
peetee wrote:Polo 1.9 TDi. Did my research to find the most economical option. Its pre-DPF Which sounds like an environmental disaster but given these filters need regularly clearing out with a good thrash up a motorway I figured that non fitted cars must be better if you don’t ever have to drive them hard.

1.9Pdi I think. I can believe those numbers, and it will run at least to the end of time, or perhaps a little beyond.


Yes it is, although not according to the badge. My previous car owned 10 years before was a Passat with the pre-Pdi engine and despite being bigger was even more economical.

That's progress. Oh wait :lol:

Bonefishblues
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Bonefishblues » 29 Jun 2020, 10:48pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:
Cowsham wrote:Ic engines biggest problem is that they make power over a very limited Rev range so they need an extra pile of rotating parts to extend that Rev range to the wheels. The best solution to the problem is get rid of the ic engine and use an electric motor where torque can be adjusted by the inverter or stepper motor driver. The next best is replace the gearbox with a cvt.
I don't believe in hybrids -- if you look at the efficiency of a straight cvt yaris ( ice to cvt ) as compared to the hybrid version you'll find the straight cvt more efficient on fuel.

Converting chemical energy to mechanical then back to chemical then electrical and back again to mechanical doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Better with a fully electric car or ic cvt car. Gearbox should be a thing of the past.

As someone has already pointed out the Williams F1 team tested cvt in 1992 ( I think ) and it was 2 seconds a lap quicker than a manual car but it got banned cos it was too quick. A bit bonkers as F1 is meant to be the blue ribbon of car races and the driver of progress and development.


No - F1 is very tightly controlled to limit speeds for the sake of safety. There isn't room at tracks to have enough runoff and barrier for a car that can corner at 200mph, even if the engineers could make it.


Slightly off topic though - the phev market does make sense to me. 35-40 miles of range is enough for many people's daily driving, and the ready availablity of a chemical topup for the rare long days is a comfort blanket.

Agree. My plug in Prius with a mere 15 miles battery was genuinely useful as the battery power was switchable. I saw some very impressive figures from it.

pwa
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby pwa » 30 Jun 2020, 9:17am

I was sceptical about hybrids because the extra gubbins makes the vehicle heavier, and not all the energy from braking is fully redirected into the drive system, so I thought the benefits versus a straight petrol engine would be marginal. But on the two journeys I've done in the Auris so far, the mpg has been impressive. 50 mpg bringing the car back from Cardiff was very much what I would have expected from a conservatively driven diesel on that route, with its mix of stop-start and more flowing roads. The 70 mpg between our house and my Mum's was better than I've had with a diesel, and that is one of the routes we do most often. I do have a light right foot, which helps.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 30 Jun 2020, 10:41am

Hi,
Cyril Haearn wrote:Surely people can design machines that are better than people
Dunno if there are losses in an automatic gearbox. But most drivers do not use the gears correctly, a machine could be programmed to do so

Had a motor with five gears, fourth was quite high, I am ashamed to admit I sometimes realised I had been in fourth for a while when I should have been in fifth

Some motors have six or seven gears, that is too much for the human brain :?

All my new motors had six gears except for one Which had five.
Secondhand ones I owned had four or five.
Except one I think which was secondhand which I rebuilt from scratch and that had six speeds all forward of course........Why would you need to reverse on a bike ha ha, IIRC One of my secondhand 125cc motorbikes had six speeds.
One of my Motorcycles a V four produced over 300 break hp per ton, 400cc.

I much prefer manual driving to automatic I've driven a few automatics and I can see the attraction, all motors have an economy band, If it was manual and you drove it within this band then it would still be more efficient than an automatic as said.
I think some are getting confused with the fact that a hybrid et cetera uses other propulsional forms, And it changes gear for you and yes probably more efficiently than your typical driver.
My mates tried to drive his van in top gear a lot using the brakes and the clutch wrongly, then one day he lost control and drove into a vehicle that was waiting for him.
I think he thought he was getting better economy by using top gear all the time.
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Pebble
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Pebble » 30 Jun 2020, 12:10pm

I regularly drive an auto car and manual van, and the bit that puzzles me is; I am very happy to drive either, never think about it when driving, never make a mistake and look for the clutch in the car or expect the van to change gear. Now my manual van also has traditional wind up windows and the car has standard electric windows. And for whatever reason I have major problems getting the windows up in down, I'm forever search for the winding handle in the car. Why does my brain remember auto/manual but not how the windows work.

Do I have preferences, yep, I think I prefer the wind up windows, a bit of exercise, a bit of movement! think I prefer the manual box too, except for heavy traffic when the auto is quite nice.

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Mick F
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Mick F » 30 Jun 2020, 12:27pm

pwa wrote: .........and not all the energy from braking is fully redirected into the drive system ........
Not sure what you mean about this.

The way ours works, is that the brake pedal is an electrical thingy and the actual brakes only come on when needed, as usually regen is the way the car slows when you press the pedal and the traction battery gets a charge.

The brake pads are used to stop the car, and when braking hard. All other times, the regen does it and that's why the pads last a long time and the alu wheels stay cleaner.

The driver has no control over the brakes (or the engine either) .......... just the car as a whole.
Mick F. Cornwall

pwa
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby pwa » 30 Jun 2020, 12:41pm

Mick F wrote:
pwa wrote: .........and not all the energy from braking is fully redirected into the drive system ........
Not sure what you mean about this.

The way ours works, is that the brake pedal is an electrical thingy and the actual brakes only come on when needed, as usually regen is the way the car slows when you press the pedal and the traction battery gets a charge.

The brake pads are used to stop the car, and when braking hard. All other times, the regen does it and that's why the pads last a long time and the alu wheels stay cleaner.

The driver has no control over the brakes (or the engine either) .......... just the car as a whole.

All I mean is that energy gathered from slowing, then converted back into forward motion when you need it, is subject to losses along the way. That is why I was initially suspicious that a hybrid system might not give sufficient advantages to more than compensate for the extra weight being carted about. But I think I was incorrect on that point.

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Mick F
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Mick F » 30 Jun 2020, 1:40pm

I'm still learning about how these things work.
Ours is "only" a Yaris, so as such the battery isn't very big. A Prius has a much bigger one and as such gets much better economy than we do.

I know you can't get something for nothing, but I wonder if you could prolong the distance available to go under electric drive by driving and braking. Go along a few hundred yards in EV mode, then brake to regenerate, then repeat.

For instance, we live down in a valley, so every time we get home, the battery is full which means if we could find somewhere flat to go, we could get there without using petrol. All the electric juice obtained from gravity alone.

If the battery was big enough and efficient enough, you could charge through gravity down the hills, and then use EV to get up the other sides. :D
Mick F. Cornwall

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 30 Jun 2020, 1:52pm

Hi,
Recharging the battery to get up the hill the other side by going down the hill was an old fantasy sure.
Surely some of the regen comes from the retardment Of energy obtained from the petrol!
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.