I drove a normal car yesterday

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al_yrpal
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby al_yrpal » 30 Jun 2020, 4:46pm

Mick F wrote:I'm still learning about how these things work.
Ours is "only" a Yaris, so as such the battery isn't very big. A Prius has a much bigger one and as such gets much better economy than we do.

I know you can't get something for nothing, but I wonder if you could prolong the distance available to go under electric drive by driving and braking. Go along a few hundred yards in EV mode, then brake to regenerate, then repeat.

For instance, we live down in a valley, so every time we get home, the battery is full which means if we could find somewhere flat to go, we could get there without using petrol. All the electric juice obtained from gravity alone.

If the battery was big enough and efficient enough, you could charge through gravity down the hills, and then use EV to get up the other sides. :D


The Kestrel Drive along with the Torotrak transmission would do that but like so many brilliant British developments no one will back it. :(

Al
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pwa
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby pwa » 30 Jun 2020, 5:06pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
Recharging the battery to get up the hill the other side by going down the hill was an old fantasy sure.
Surely some of the regen comes from the retardment Of energy obtained from the petrol!

As it doesn't plug in, all of the energy comes directly or indirectly from the petrol you put in the tank. But the hybrid system saves some energy that would otherwise be wasted, such as when you coast down a hill, and gives it back later.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 30 Jun 2020, 5:14pm

Hi,
pwa wrote:
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
Recharging the battery to get up the hill the other side by going down the hill was an old fantasy sure.
Surely some of the regen comes from the retardment Of energy obtained from the petrol!

As it doesn't plug in, all of the energy comes directly or indirectly from the petrol you put in the tank. But the hybrid system saves some energy that would otherwise be wasted, such as when you coast down a hill, and gives it back later.

So if you are coasting downhill I would imagine there would be no need for petrol for regen?
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

reohn2
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby reohn2 » 30 Jun 2020, 5:27pm

al_yrpal wrote:
The Kestrel Drive along with the Torotrak transmission would do that but like so many brilliant British developments no one will back it. :(

Al

I don't know what Kestral Drive and Torotrak are but if they're that good you'd think investors would be falling over themselves to back it.
Google says Torotrak went bust in 2018 and I can't see anything on Kestral Drive other than transmission parts sales.
What was so good about them?
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pwa
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby pwa » 30 Jun 2020, 5:33pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
pwa wrote:
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
Recharging the battery to get up the hill the other side by going down the hill was an old fantasy sure.
Surely some of the regen comes from the retardment Of energy obtained from the petrol!

As it doesn't plug in, all of the energy comes directly or indirectly from the petrol you put in the tank. But the hybrid system saves some energy that would otherwise be wasted, such as when you coast down a hill, and gives it back later.

So if you are coasting downhill I would imagine there would be no need for petrol for regen?

I'm not sure how it works, but it could be that regen is being topped up and used at the same time depending how the regen energy is gathered. Anybody know? Going down a hill the car is propelled by gravity, so potentially it could produce electricity both to store and to power things like the power steering. I know that when I drove down a mile long hill today the EV light was on all the way down, meaning no petrol use, and part way up the other side. I got about 56mpg on a ten mile return trip (2x5) involving quite a bit of stop/start, and for a petrol fuelled car of Focus size that is good. Our diesel cars would not have done better on that route.

I don't doubt that our next car, ten years or more down the line, will be purely electric. But we are not ready for that yet. The pure electric cars of the size we want are dearer than we can afford, and in spite of what some people say it is still easier to refuel with hydrocarbons. Right now we want to get away from diesel and use petrol in the most efficient way we can. That means using the car less, and using a car that makes the most of every drop of fuel.

Bonefishblues
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Bonefishblues » 30 Jun 2020, 5:46pm

pwa wrote:
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
pwa wrote:As it doesn't plug in, all of the energy comes directly or indirectly from the petrol you put in the tank. But the hybrid system saves some energy that would otherwise be wasted, such as when you coast down a hill, and gives it back later.

So if you are coasting downhill I would imagine there would be no need for petrol for regen?

I'm not sure how it works, but it could be that regen is being topped up and used at the same time depending how the regen energy is gathered. Anybody know? Going down a hill the car is propelled by gravity, so potentially it could produce electricity both to store and to power things like the power steering. I know that when I drove down a mile long hill today the EV light was on all the way down, meaning no petrol use, and part way up the other side. I got about 56mpg on a ten mile return trip (2x5) involving quite a bit of stop/start, and for a petrol fuelled car of Focus size that is good. Our diesel cars would not have done better on that route.

I don't doubt that our next car, ten years or more down the line, will be purely electric. But we are not ready for that yet. The pure electric cars of the size we want are dearer than we can afford, and in spite of what some people say it is still easier to refuel with hydrocarbons. Right now we want to get away from diesel and use petrol in the most efficient way we can. That means using the car less, and using a car that makes the most of every drop of fuel.

Here you go. We will be asking questions :wink:
Clever, clever stuff, and as it says, brilliantly integrated.

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pwa
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby pwa » 30 Jun 2020, 5:53pm

So when coasting down a long hill, no petrol is being used and it is also possible that energy being produced by the front wheels going round is sufficient to operate all the systems and charge the battery for use later on.

PDQ Mobile
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby PDQ Mobile » 30 Jun 2020, 6:04pm

All of which convieniently ignores the carbon cost of making (and buying) a new or nearly new vehicle.
Google gives a host of results concerning this but
this gives a flavour.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... nt-new-car

To my mind, and I am not alone, most modern vehicles are doomed to the scrap heap in a decade.
Their sheer complexity means repair becomes uneconomic after a relaively short time.
And they need repair and new batteries too periodically.


So I feel just as reasonably smug as I pootle along churning out fumes in my old banger!
That I paid £79:50 for in 1979
It's called sustainable motoring.
:shock:

Bonefishblues
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Bonefishblues » 30 Jun 2020, 6:45pm

pwa wrote:So when coasting down a long hill, no petrol is being used and it is also possible that energy being produced by the front wheels going round is sufficient to operate all the systems and charge the battery for use later on.

Exactly this. Not sure if yours has this display or whether it's just the Prius, but it's fascinating to see just how often energy is being harvested.

You should join the Toyota Forum and learn some of the techniques for getting the best out of your hybrid - there are definite techniques that can be used to good effect (including, in my case in the PiP having all the heaters and blowers switched off on cold mornings until I was on the M40 and ready to start the ICE where it could warm up most effectively :oops: )

Bonefishblues
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Bonefishblues » 30 Jun 2020, 6:50pm

PDQ Mobile wrote:All of which convieniently ignores the carbon cost of making (and buying) a new or nearly new vehicle.
Google gives a host of results concerning this but
this gives a flavour.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... nt-new-car

To my mind, and I am not alone, most modern vehicles are doomed to the scrap heap in a decade.
Their sheer complexity means repair becomes uneconomic after a relaively short time.
And they need repair and new batteries too periodically.


So I feel just as reasonably smug as I pootle along churning out fumes in my old banger!
That I paid £79:50 for in 1979
It's called sustainable motoring.
:shock:

Yes, you're right, there are a plethora of competing calcs in terms of the carbon 'break-even' period. It's very hard to know whose to trust. Then there's the rare earths/metals or whatever, and so on.

pwa
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby pwa » 30 Jun 2020, 7:10pm

Bonefishblues wrote:
pwa wrote:So when coasting down a long hill, no petrol is being used and it is also possible that energy being produced by the front wheels going round is sufficient to operate all the systems and charge the battery for use later on.

Exactly this. Not sure if yours has this display or whether it's just the Prius, but it's fascinating to see just how often energy is being harvested.

You should join the Toyota Forum and learn some of the techniques for getting the best out of your hybrid - there are definite techniques that can be used to good effect (including, in my case in the PiP having all the heaters and blowers switched off on cold mornings until I was on the M40 and ready to start the ICE where it could warm up most effectively :oops: )

I'll be keeping my fingers away from the heated seats buttons. :lol:
It does have the fancy displays showing what the engine, motor and battery are doing, but for me that would be a distraction so I have it switched off.

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Mick F
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby Mick F » 30 Jun 2020, 7:35pm

Bonefishblues wrote:You should join the Toyota Forum ................

This is me.
https://www.toyotaownersclub.com/profile/162427-mick-f/
Mick F. Cornwall

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al_yrpal
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby al_yrpal » 30 Jun 2020, 8:02pm

reohn2 wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:
The Kestrel Drive along with the Torotrak transmission would do that but like so many brilliant British developments no one will back it. :(

Al

I don't know what Kestral Drive and Torotrak are but if they're that good you'd think investors would be falling over themselves to back it.
Google says Torotrak went bust in 2018 and I can't see anything on Kestral Drive other than transmission parts sales.
What was so good about them?


A unique tilting disc toroidal transmission CVT coupled with an energy recovering flywheel that cuts fuel usage by 30%. Developed in your nick of the woods. Bought out by the Yanks who buried it. Vested interests at work. Power transmitted through a film of oil.

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. Make a difference...

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 30 Jun 2020, 9:22pm

Hi,
Was that fitted to a bus?
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
You'll Still Find Me At The Top Of A Hill
Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

reohn2
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Re: I drove a normal car yesterday

Postby reohn2 » 30 Jun 2020, 10:10pm

al_yrpal wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:
The Kestrel Drive along with the Torotrak transmission would do that but like so many brilliant British developments no one will back it. :(

Al

I don't know what Kestral Drive and Torotrak are but if they're that good you'd think investors would be falling over themselves to back it.
Google says Torotrak went bust in 2018 and I can't see anything on Kestral Drive other than transmission parts sales.
What was so good about them?


A unique tilting disc toroidal transmission CVT coupled with an energy recovering flywheel that cuts fuel usage by 30%. Developed in your nick of the woods. Bought out by the Yanks who buried it. Vested interests at work. Power transmitted through a film of oil.

Al

Thanks for that Al,I'd no idea.
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