Tory leader - place your bets

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pwa
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby pwa » 25 May 2019, 10:56am

reohn2 wrote:
PH wrote:
pwa wrote:The fall of May will please many with Remain sympathies but it will please the No Deal hardliners even more. There is a real possibility that we will be having a PM determined to take us over that edge, and I wonder if some who take a softer line will end up wishing they had backed May when they had the chance.

Yes, even within the party it's a deeply undemocratic process, with the membership only given a choice of two candidates*. It's entirely possible that they'll both come from the same wing of the party and the membership will effectively have no choice.

* If they're lucky, it's often decided behind closed doors before it goes to the membership.

With the country having even less choice who the next PM will be!
And all the while those who voted for brexit keep complaining about the EU's lack of democracy :roll:

Good point about democracy.
But don't you wonder if the No Deal hardliners are about to achieve checkmate in the game they are playing?

PH
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby PH » 25 May 2019, 11:49am

pwa wrote:But don't you wonder if the No Deal hardliners are about to achieve checkmate in the game they are playing?

Indeed, the next leader will be able to declare their policy is what the party chose and it'll be harder to be a Tory dissenter.

Ben@Forest
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby Ben@Forest » 25 May 2019, 1:04pm

Mick F wrote:My uncle was a POW in Germany captured in Greece, and I'd like to bet that none of them stayed in Germany after the war.


There is a difference, German POWs were retained here or the Soviet Union longer to help rebuild those countries they had tried to destroy. So there was time for German POWs to experience life here, fall in love with a local girl etc, our POWs came straight home.

I read about a Channel Islands girl who, after the war, married a German soldier who'd been garrisoned there, but don't know whether they stayed there or moved to Germany.

mercalia
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby mercalia » 25 May 2019, 1:30pm

just wondering. do the "royal family" vote in GE and EU elections? I bet Phillip votes Labour :wink:

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Mick F
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby Mick F » 25 May 2019, 1:35pm

Ben@Forest wrote:
Mick F wrote:My uncle was a POW in Germany captured in Greece, and I'd like to bet that none of them stayed in Germany after the war.


There is a difference, German POWs were retained here or the Soviet Union longer to help rebuild those countries they had tried to destroy. So there was time for German POWs to experience life here, fall in love with a local girl etc, our POWs came straight home
Not from my conversations.

I understand that many of the German POWs were employed here and not locked in prison camps. Farms and gardening for instance, though there may have been other employment I suppose. They were looked after locally and had to report in twice a day (?). The difference here, is that we are an island and escape back to Germany was almost impossible.
Mick F. Cornwall

reohn2
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby reohn2 » 25 May 2019, 2:34pm

pwa wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
PH wrote:Yes, even within the party it's a deeply undemocratic process, with the membership only given a choice of two candidates*. It's entirely possible that they'll both come from the same wing of the party and the membership will effectively have no choice.

* If they're lucky, it's often decided behind closed doors before it goes to the membership.

With the country having even less choice who the next PM will be!
And all the while those who voted for brexit keep complaining about the EU's lack of democracy :roll:

Good point about democracy.
But don't you wonder if the No Deal hardliners are about to achieve checkmate in the game they are playing?

Yes I do they'll never get a no deal through the House.
What's needed is either a deal the House agrees to which has no chance of happening with the likes of BoJo or similar as PM,who would most likely run down the clock then try to blame the EU for not capitulating,or a deal the House can't agree on and a second referendum with the deal or revoke A50 as the two options.But again I can't see that happening whilst clowns are in charge of the House :?
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pwa
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby pwa » 25 May 2019, 2:40pm

reohn2 wrote:
pwa wrote:
reohn2 wrote:With the country having even less choice who the next PM will be!
And all the while those who voted for brexit keep complaining about the EU's lack of democracy :roll:

Good point about democracy.
But don't you wonder if the No Deal hardliners are about to achieve checkmate in the game they are playing?

Yes I do they'll never get a no deal through the House.
What's needed is either a deal the House agrees to which has no chance of happening with the likes of BoJo or similar as PM,who would most likely run down the clock then try to blame the EU for not capitulating,or a deal the House can't agree on and a second referendum with the deal or revoke A50 as the two options.But again I can't see that happening whilst clowns are in charge of the House :?

I wonder if Boris could just engineer a No Deal exit by doing nothing when something is required to avoid it happening by default. That would not require a vote in the Commons. He could be about to get his hands on the controls and I'd be surprised if that was not part of his plan.

thirdcrank
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby thirdcrank » 25 May 2019, 3:08pm

What's all these Bozzer red herrings about on a German PoW thread? Godwin's rule ... er .... rules. (OK?)

reohn2
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby reohn2 » 25 May 2019, 5:18pm

pwa wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
pwa wrote:Good point about democracy.
But don't you wonder if the No Deal hardliners are about to achieve checkmate in the game they are playing?

Yes I do they'll never get a no deal through the House.
What's needed is either a deal the House agrees to which has no chance of happening with the likes of BoJo or similar as PM,who would most likely run down the clock then try to blame the EU for not capitulating,or a deal the House can't agree on and a second referendum with the deal or revoke A50 as the two options.But again I can't see that happening whilst clowns are in charge of the House :?

I wonder if Boris could just engineer a No Deal exit by doing nothing when something is required to avoid it happening by default. That would not require a vote in the Commons. He could be about to get his hands on the controls and I'd be surprised if that was not part of his plan.

Agreed,I think that's what's in the minds of the Tory active membership,totally out of touch with reality sitting on a sizable monetary cushion and devil take the hindmost.

I know you voted out for considered reasons,but this is reality of the brexit vote,we teeter on the edge of the abyss.......
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mercalia
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby mercalia » 25 May 2019, 6:45pm

pwa wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
pwa wrote:Good point about democracy.
But don't you wonder if the No Deal hardliners are about to achieve checkmate in the game they are playing?

Yes I do they'll never get a no deal through the House.
What's needed is either a deal the House agrees to which has no chance of happening with the likes of BoJo or similar as PM,who would most likely run down the clock then try to blame the EU for not capitulating,or a deal the House can't agree on and a second referendum with the deal or revoke A50 as the two options.But again I can't see that happening whilst clowns are in charge of the House :?

I wonder if Boris could just engineer a No Deal exit by doing nothing when something is required to avoid it happening by default. That would not require a vote in the Commons. He could be about to get his hands on the controls and I'd be surprised if that was not part of his plan.


yes that is my fear also- he gets to look like a tough guy by doing nothing - just go to Brussels and open his mouth let events take their course.

accoding tot the guardian Boris Johnson said : UK will leave EU in October, deal or no deal

Hard to back down from that?

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bovlomov
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby bovlomov » 25 May 2019, 7:16pm

mercalia wrote:Hard to back down from that?

Not for Johnson. According to Rory Stewart, Johnson promised him, only a few days ago, that he wouldn't campaign for no deal. What he promises or what he doesn't promise - it's all the same to him.

(I'm still going with my 2016 prediction, that Johnson will end up campaigning for remain.)

reohn2
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby reohn2 » 25 May 2019, 7:23pm

bovlomov wrote:
mercalia wrote:Hard to back down from that?

Not for Johnson. According to Rory Stewart, Johnson promised him, only a few days ago, that he wouldn't campaign for no deal. What he promises or what he doesn't promise - it's all the same to him.

(I'm still going with my 2016 prediction, that Johnson will end up campaigning for remain.)

I'm convinced BoJo lives in an alternative reality that bears no resemblance to actual reality.....


.....thinking about it though that's not much different to the rest of the Tory party :roll:
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pete75
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby pete75 » 25 May 2019, 8:09pm

mercalia wrote:
pwa wrote:
reohn2 wrote:Yes I do they'll never get a no deal through the House.
What's needed is either a deal the House agrees to which has no chance of happening with the likes of BoJo or similar as PM,who would most likely run down the clock then try to blame the EU for not capitulating,or a deal the House can't agree on and a second referendum with the deal or revoke A50 as the two options.But again I can't see that happening whilst clowns are in charge of the House :?

I wonder if Boris could just engineer a No Deal exit by doing nothing when something is required to avoid it happening by default. That would not require a vote in the Commons. He could be about to get his hands on the controls and I'd be surprised if that was not part of his plan.


yes that is my fear also- he gets to look like a tough guy by doing nothing - just go to Brussels and open his mouth let events take their course.

accoding tot the guardian Boris Johnson said : UK will leave EU in October, deal or no deal

Hard to back down from that?


In another article I read a couple of days ago Johnson was saying he wanted a comprehensive free trade deal with the EU.

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Lance Dopestrong
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby Lance Dopestrong » 25 May 2019, 8:51pm

reohn2 wrote:.....thinking about it though that's not much different to the rest of the Tory party :roll:


When the results from the Euro elections start to roll in tomorrow, I think we'll find that none of the established political parties have any remaining grip on reality. Reality has moved swiftly on and left them floundering.
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reohn2
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby reohn2 » 25 May 2019, 8:59pm

Lance Dopestrong wrote:
reohn2 wrote:.....thinking about it though that's not much different to the rest of the Tory party :roll:


When the results from the Euro elections start to roll in tomorrow, I think we'll find that none of the established political parties have any remaining grip on reality. Reality has moved swiftly on and left them floundering.

It's what happens when idiots are in charge and rich maniacs fund them :?
Someone once said "we get the politicians we deserve" well there you go....
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