Tory leader - place your bets

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pete75
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby pete75 » 15 Jun 2019, 8:29am

landsurfer wrote:
kwackers wrote:
landsurfer wrote:AAHHH ... Project Fear is alive and well, ignoring the previous failure of it's attempts to predict the future ...... "We're all doomed" they cried .. except we weren't !!

Methinks you might be exaggerating but out of interest how's project: "it's all going to be rosy" coming along?

Obviously in both cases we've yet to leave and leavers do have the majority of economists on their side - except they don't; but they do have Farrage, Johnston and that guy that moved his vacuum cleaner factory out of the UK when we didn't join the Euro telling them how great it's going to be.


The really worrying thing is ..... there is probably a huge number of people desperately hoping that leaving will be a massive disaster ... just so they can say "told you so" ..... and who will be eaten up with anger and angst if its a success ..... which is sad .. :(


And they'll be many eaten up with anger and angst if it's a failure. What's more they'll be the ones responsible.

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bovlomov
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby bovlomov » 15 Jun 2019, 8:30am

landsurfer wrote:The really worrying thing is ..... there is probably a huge number of people desperately hoping that leaving will be a massive disaster ... just so they can say "told you so" ..... and who will be eaten up with anger and angst if its a success ..... which is sad .. :(

It depends how success is defined. My view is that nothing good can ever come from such dishonesty. Even if the country doesn't disintegrate as predicted, the whole episode will still have been hugely damaging - not least because it will be a demonstration that liars prosper. Why would any politician ever be honest again?

On those grounds, it can only be a massive disaster.

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661-Pete
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby 661-Pete » 15 Jun 2019, 8:39am

landsurfer wrote:....and who will be eaten up with anger and angst if its a success .....
Don't get me wrong. I will be eaten up with anger and angst if Brex**it actually happens - whether it's a success or a disaster. So - I suspect - will many others. Our only objective, thereafter, would be to get that iniquitous decision reversed. If others think we're motivated purely by angst, so be it. I may feel angst, but my motive is commonsense...
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
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thirdcrank
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby thirdcrank » 15 Jun 2019, 8:50am

In other news, the Daily Torygraph has this:

Revealed: Secret Tory plan for members to crown Boris Johnson as new leader unopposed

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/

So that's why he's had the sheepshearers to his mophead. I thought he was considering his image in a Churchillian bowler - note to POTUS, that's a derby hat - but he's concerned about how he'll look in the Crown Jewels.

Bonefishblues
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby Bonefishblues » 15 Jun 2019, 8:55am

After Theresa's investiture that would be a disaster. What are they thinking?

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661-Pete
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby 661-Pete » 15 Jun 2019, 8:59am

thirdcrank wrote:Revealed: Secret Tory plan for members to crown Boris Johnson as new leader unopposed
...but he's concerned about how he'll look in the Crown Jewels.
Good idea. Couldn't they just plonk the Koh-i-Noor, suitably mounted, on the Bojo thatch?

Note for the uninitiated: the Koh-i-Noor diamond is reputed to carry a curse - not surprisingly since both India and Pakistan still demand its return, claiming it was stolen from them. It will bring ill fortune - possibly even death - to any man who wears it. Since the 19th century it has only ever been worn by a woman...
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).

JohnW
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby JohnW » 15 Jun 2019, 11:34am

kwackers wrote:........................................................ The best thing that can come of it in my opinion is the disintegration of the two main parties.

But what'll replace them?
Look at the right wing parties so far, from Hitler to the gang that murdered Jo Cox.

I'm not opposed to your views kwackers, but I really fear for the lives and futures of today's younger generation - I see Brexit as merely a symptom of a deep and ingrained sickness within the thoughtless rich and privileged, and the newspapers that thrive from them, and support them, and persuade those who've never been taught any better to support them.

JohnW
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby JohnW » 15 Jun 2019, 11:36am

661-Pete wrote:
thirdcrank wrote:Revealed: Secret Tory plan for members to crown Boris Johnson as new leader unopposed
...but he's concerned about how he'll look in the Crown Jewels.
Good idea. Couldn't they just plonk the Koh-i-Noor, suitably mounted, on the Bojo thatch?

Note for the uninitiated: the Koh-i-Noor diamond is reputed to carry a curse - not surprisingly since both India and Pakistan still demand its return, claiming it was stolen from them. It will bring ill fortune - possibly even death - to any man who wears it. Since the 19th century it has only ever been worn by a woman...

Hey - careful Pete - remember the stick that Jo Brand is getting.

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Cugel
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby Cugel » 15 Jun 2019, 11:41am

landsurfer wrote:
kwackers wrote:
landsurfer wrote:AAHHH ... Project Fear is alive and well, ignoring the previous failure of it's attempts to predict the future ...... "We're all doomed" they cried .. except we weren't !!

Methinks you might be exaggerating but out of interest how's project: "it's all going to be rosy" coming along?

Obviously in both cases we've yet to leave and leavers do have the majority of economists on their side - except they don't; but they do have Farrage, Johnston and that guy that moved his vacuum cleaner factory out of the UK when we didn't join the Euro telling them how great it's going to be.


The really worrying thing is ..... there is probably a huge number of people desperately hoping that leaving will be a massive disaster ... just so they can say "told you so" ..... and who will be eaten up with anger and angst if its a success ..... which is sad .. :(


You may well be right! Myself, I will be more than happy to eat any number of humble pies should Brexit result in a sunlit upland where there are, for example, no cars and everyone loves their neighbour. I really would. (Humble pie - Mmmmmm)!

Still, if it's a matter of gambling (which it is) I'd prefer not to (gamble, I mean). If I'm forced to, as we all have been by dafties of various kinds voting like Turkeys, I would bet on Brexit resulting a a plain of woe rather than a sunlit upland.

Cugel

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Cugel
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby Cugel » 15 Jun 2019, 11:46am

thirdcrank wrote:In other news, the Daily Torygraph has this:

Revealed: Secret Tory plan for members to crown Boris Johnson as new leader unopposed

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/

So that's why he's had the sheepshearers to his mophead. I thought he was considering his image in a Churchillian bowler - note to POTUS, that's a derby hat - but he's concerned about how he'll look in the Crown Jewels.


Myself, I feel that haircut is a copy of the Stealin' Yatterbox Lummox look. BoJo definitely has moved in the direction of the Tommy-rotters since Brexit. Of course, he was the posh version of a footie hooligan for years, aka "a hooray henry". The Bullingdon Club restaurant-smashing was but one of his egregious behaviours when a young bull still in bully-school.

Cugel

JohnW
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby JohnW » 15 Jun 2019, 12:52pm

Cugel wrote:....................I will be more than happy to eat any number of humble pies should Brexit result in a sunlit upland where there are, for example, no cars and everyone loves their neighbour. I really would. (Humble pie - Mmmmmm)!

Still, if it's a matter of gambling (which it is) I'd prefer not to (gamble, I mean). If I'm forced to, as we all have been by dafties of various kinds voting like Turkeys, I would bet on Brexit resulting a a plain of woe rather than a sunlit upland.

Cugel


Cugel - there have been several posts on this thread that I've felt that I identify with - and yours is one of them. I identify with your sentiments, and your pragmatic subsequent analysis. Well posted!

reohn2
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby reohn2 » 15 Jun 2019, 12:58pm

pete75 wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:No, I was thinking about Rachel Johnson. I find her insights informative. Why might I be joking about that, or thinking about someone completely different?


She'd get Mick f's vote that's for sure.


Image

MickF willmvote for anything in a skirt,after all he voted for Anne Widecombe :shock: :shock: :shock:
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kwackers
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby kwackers » 15 Jun 2019, 1:02pm

JohnW wrote:
kwackers wrote:........................................................ The best thing that can come of it in my opinion is the disintegration of the two main parties.

But what'll replace them?
Look at the right wing parties so far, from Hitler to the gang that murdered Jo Cox.

I'm not opposed to your views kwackers, but I really fear for the lives and futures of today's younger generation - I see Brexit as merely a symptom of a deep and ingrained sickness within the thoughtless rich and privileged, and the newspapers that thrive from them, and support them, and persuade those who've never been taught any better to support them.

I think the two party system we currently have is responsible for the mess.
Most minority parties gain a larger percentage of the votes than the percentage of the MP's that represent them, that's not right (and I include the far right parties in this as well as the more left wing parties)

What will replace them will be coalitions, no more swing left, swing right and a bit more give and take.

Slightly bizarrely despite the binary vote on brexit the parliamentary impasse is precisely because MP's have to represent their electorate not all of whom support brexit. Parliament is merely a microcosm of the UK electorate along with a loud minority trying to force the majorities hand.

Ultimately though I think the current system is broken, I was disappointed that we threw away any chance of proportional representation. We fell for the nonsense back then and won't be given another chance.
Without that chance I relish the breakdown of the two party system as a way of forcing the hand of electoral reform.

reohn2
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby reohn2 » 15 Jun 2019, 1:07pm

landsurfer wrote:]
The really worrying thing is ..... there is probably a huge number of people desperately hoping that leaving will be a massive disaster ... just so they can say "told you so" ..... and who will be eaten up with anger and angst if its a success ..... which is sad .. :(


I hope it is a success for the sake of the country as a whole and that I and just less than half those who voted got it totally wrong.But going off the arguments for brexit both on here and elsewhere I very much doubt it .
But if it isn't Brexit voters will never hear the last of it
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reohn2
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby reohn2 » 15 Jun 2019, 1:12pm

kwackers wrote:Ultimately though I think the current system is broken, I was disappointed that we threw away any chance of proportional representation. We fell for the nonsense back then and won't be given another chance.
Without that chance I relish the breakdown of the two party system as a way of forcing the hand of electoral reform.


I think you're right PR one way or another is the only fair system of government in a modern democracy.
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