Tory leader - place your bets

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reohn2
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby reohn2 » 24 May 2019, 9:06am

Cugel wrote:Doomed! We're all doomed!!

Cugel Frazer

Well that's right it's just a matter of which type of doomery you prefer


R2 phylosophising in a world of maddery
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reohn2
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby reohn2 » 24 May 2019, 9:06am

PDQ Mobile wrote:And I think the Tory leader will remain the same.
His name is Rupert Murdoch.

Only the figurehead is about to be swapped.

:wink:
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mercalia
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby mercalia » 24 May 2019, 9:07am

from the BBC -
One of Theresa May's cabinet colleagues was adamant to me [Laura Kuenssberg ]earlier that instead she "will stay and fight on - there's no way she'll be taken out by the men in grey suits

no in white suits I think then.


mr bajokoses
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby mr bajokoses » 24 May 2019, 9:21am

reohn2 wrote:I think the term that best describes the Tory party is 'not fit for purpose' indeed if it were a consumable you'd take it back and demand a refund :wink:


It's the party of Nostalgia and Nastiness.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby Tangled Metal » 24 May 2019, 9:33am

How about a leftfield idea. Marxist infiltrator becomes leader of the Conservative party. John Mcdonnell! He's the quiet leader behind Corbyn I suspect. If the Labour Party can't ditch Corbyn for him (which IMHO they certainly should) then let him have the tories! They might move more left towards when the party was great on thatcher's time!

Let's face it the tory party is in an entertainingly dire predicament. I'm sure to the delight of the left leaning members of this forum they're in trouble. However I would like to point out that despite all this why aren't Labour romping home with a huge lead in the polls? If at any other time in history there's been as incompetent party of government with an opposition who can't benefit from their predicament I'll be very surprised.

The tories were in difficulty in the last year's of their government mid to late 90s then Blair was leading the way in polls I believe. But where ours Corbyn? In his own kind of difficulty because he can't come down on one side or the other in the Brexit debate. So he's playing games with policy instead of forging ahead with decisive agenda on Brexit.

Sorry for going off topic but it isn't just the tory party disintegrating or even the Brexit catastrophe (by that I mean how it has gone) but it's also about how we need a strong, decisive opposition but only have Corbyn! I reckon a good opposition leader would have won a no confidence vote and probably forced a GE and / or formed a minority government coalition. That's despite party division over Brexit in Labour too.

BTW front runners rarely get the job in tory leadership battles. Heseltine was potentially a lead candidate and a good one IMHO who never got into number 10 as leader. I reckon Boris won't get in neither. I hope Leadsom gets ditched before the wider party gets their two candidates. Gove is an oily snake oil salesman. He is very clever but not liked. JRM? Can I emigrate if he becomes a candidate? I'll have lost all will to be British if that happened. Who are the other candidates? There's nobody worth having.

Another potentially less leftfield idea (more centrist) might be defection of Chukka Umuna to the tories in exchange for leadership. That would me him ditching his party CHUKka ummuna party.

Sorry it's all a joke in UK Parliament. Where are the big beasts of political debate? Tony Benn and Heseltine for example? There's nobody of calibre on British politics IMHO.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 24 May 2019, 9:41am

Hi,
Mick F wrote:Does it actually matter who is the Tory leader?

It matters nowt to me.
They're all the same, have been, and always will be.

Yeah makes no difference at all to where we're heading.
Good odds on leaving with no deal, none would agree or compromise on a deal for sure.
Some MPs are talking about a new type of politics?
But that's all smoke and mirrors because you're not going to have a new type of politics with old types of MP's and their backgrounds.

So My odds are on Drifting or sliding towards the cliff, exit no Deal and soon after Other EU countries will leave, EU is dead that I'm sure.

I met three old friends last night (funny I never knew I had so many?) I've put them on the spot and asked them which way they were leaning, I expected they would support me, I was not disappointed.
First time I ever put someone on the spot about the subject.

Oh, probably some of the names mentioned already but nobody connected with Shakespeare characters.
If You Don't Try You Don't Do.....Don't Do You Don't Get...I'm Still Trying....Well Very..
You'll Find Me At The Top Of A Hill...............Somewhere...After Dark..

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NUKe
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby NUKe » 24 May 2019, 9:46am

NATURAL ANKLING wrote: I met three old friends last night (funny I never knew I had so many?) I've put them on the spot and asked them which way they were leaning, I expected they would support me, I was not disappointed.
First time I ever put someone on the spot about the subject.

Oh, probably some of the names mentioned already but nobody connected with Shakespeare characters.

Sorry the B word aside that is just confirmatory bias,
Friends always tend to have similar leaning
NUKe
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 24 May 2019, 9:47am

Hi,
Mick F wrote:Off topic.
We're still getting threatening letters because we're continuing to ignore their threatening letters.
Such fun. :lol:


And what a waste of effort.
I mean just save the planet all that paper.
Buy a license and put Us out of our misery :mrgreen:
If You Don't Try You Don't Do.....Don't Do You Don't Get...I'm Still Trying....Well Very..
You'll Find Me At The Top Of A Hill...............Somewhere...After Dark..

pwa
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby pwa » 24 May 2019, 9:51am

Not Boris. He has too many enemies inside his party. Someone more boring (and less of a concern) such as Hammond.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 24 May 2019, 9:51am

Hi,
reohn2 wrote:
Cugel wrote:Doomed! We're all doomed!!

Cugel Frazer

Well that's right it's just a matter of which type of doomery you prefer


R2 phylosophising in a world of maddery


The lion the witch and the wardrobe :)
If You Don't Try You Don't Do.....Don't Do You Don't Get...I'm Still Trying....Well Very..
You'll Find Me At The Top Of A Hill...............Somewhere...After Dark..

PH
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby PH » 24 May 2019, 10:00am

Tangled Metal wrote:If at any other time in history there's been as incompetent party of government with an opposition who can't benefit from their predicament I'll be very surprised.

You don't have to look that far back in history, the Tories during much of the Blair reign were in total disarray, Hauge, IDS, Howard, can you remember anything they did which made a meaningful difference or boosted their party's prospects? At the time when Blair was leading the Government on a crusade, where were the opposition?

PDQ Mobile
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby PDQ Mobile » 24 May 2019, 10:08am

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:
So My odds are on Drifting or sliding towards the cliff, exit no Deal and soon after Other EU countries will leave, EU is dead that I'm sure.

I met three old friends last night (funny I never knew I had so many?) I've put them on the spot and asked them which way they were leaning, I expected they would support me, I was not disappointed.



On the first point about asking friends and their given opinions I cannot say.
Though the sample is clearly pretty unrepresentative.

On the second point about the EU being about to disintegrate I do not agree.
It is a myth put about by the Faragists.

Roger de Weck addressed some of those myths last week in the Swiss Daily NZZ.
https://www.nzz.ch/meinung/fuenf-hartna ... ld.1479797

Original in German I am afraid, but google will (I imagine?) render some sort of a translation.

FWIW I think his assessment pretty intelligent and shrewd.
And optimistic, which makes a nice change from things here.
Last edited by PDQ Mobile on 24 May 2019, 10:23am, edited 1 time in total.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby Tangled Metal » 24 May 2019, 10:16am

PH wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:If at any other time in history there's been as incompetent party of government with an opposition who can't benefit from their predicament I'll be very surprised.

You don't have to look that far back in history, the Tories during much of the Blair reign were in total disarray, Hauge, IDS, Howard, can you remember anything they did which made a meaningful difference or boosted their party's prospects? At the time when Blair was leading the Government on a crusade, where were the opposition?

Not equivalent because the Labour lot were popular. Right now the tories are not. Being in disarray when the party of government has got in on a landslide and with Blairs approval ratings after a long run in power is kind of expected. It's the right time to readjust and reinvent which really needs a period of political oblivion to achieve. Look at Labour before kinnock and later on Blair perhaps.

This time around you've got a party of government that's widely despised and its disintegrating in front of our eyes. But labour isn't gaining significantly. It certainly feels different to me. Tories are a political gift to any good opposition party leadership IMHO. Labour should have clear ground between them and tories in polling.

Well I'm possibly the only one here who feels Corbyn's Labour is failing to compete against a shipwreck of a tory party right now in a way that's kind of new. 97 tories opposition isn't as bad because 97 Labour was strong. 2019 Labour is bad because 2019 tories are so very much bad and disintegrating.

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Spinners
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby Spinners » 24 May 2019, 10:27am

I think BJ and JRM will be more interested in becoming the next Tory Leader after the new one. What a desperate situation.
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pwa
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby pwa » 24 May 2019, 10:34am

Tangled Metal wrote:Well I'm possibly the only one here who feels Corbyn's Labour is failing to compete against a shipwreck of a tory party right now in a way that's kind of new. 97 tories opposition isn't as bad because 97 Labour was strong. 2019 Labour is bad because 2019 tories are so very much bad and disintegrating.


I've been talking to someone who has been acting as a counter in the Euro elections and they told me that the Brexit Party looked like the big winner. And this is in South Wales, once regarded as Labour Heartland. People are looking for alternatives and they are not looking towards Labour at the moment.