Tory leader - place your bets

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Spinners
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby Spinners » 16 Jun 2019, 8:36am

PH wrote:With all three of my horses out of the running, I thought I might have a quid on Chuka. He's been in the same party of nearly a week so must be about ready for another and I'm sure there's a way for him to get on the ballot.


LOL. Chuka by name, Chuka by nature. From the moment he withdrew from the Labour Party leadership election in 2015 I've always thought of him as being a lightweight and the good people of Streatham should call for an immediate by-election.
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661-Pete
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby 661-Pete » 16 Jun 2019, 8:50am

Spinners wrote:LOL. Chuka by name, Chuka by nature. From the moment he withdrew from the Labour Party leadership election in 2015 I've always thought of him as being a lightweight and the good people of Streatham should call for an immediate by-election.
What else can he do when the main parties have failed him - as they have failed nearly everyone else?

OK: forming Change UK was a mistake, as he has freely acknowledged. They screwed up badly over the party's name and failed to come up with a manifesto. They should have learnt a lesson from the much longer-lasting - but in the end ill-fated - SDP in the 1980s. But it makes a pleasant change for a high-profile politician to admit he was wrong. If only others would....

Personally (speaking as a Green Party member) I'd much rather Chuka had joined the Greens - I'm sure he'd be an asset there, even if his beliefs aren't entirely Green-oriented. But you can't have everything...
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Spinners
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby Spinners » 16 Jun 2019, 8:57am

661-Pete wrote:
Personally (speaking as a Green Party member) I'd much rather Chuka had joined the Greens...



Give it time.
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Stradageek
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby Stradageek » 16 Jun 2019, 9:05am

Mike Sales wrote:
landsurfer wrote:
reohn2 wrote:I think you're right PR one way or another is the only fair system of government in a modern democracy.

+1 ..

There seems to be a good PR job supporting the 'first past the post' system as guaranteeing a 'strong' government rather than the terribly inefficient German style coalition. I'd say nuts to strong government; how about a compassionate, socially and environmentally responsible government instead.

Not sure that referenda will ever work democracy being "The pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance"

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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby 661-Pete » 16 Jun 2019, 9:14am

Spinners wrote:
661-Pete wrote:Personally (speaking as a Green Party member) I'd much rather Chuka had joined the Greens...
Give it time.
Do I detect a mild sneer in your comment? Bearing in mind your earlier post? :wink:

Never mind. If he's chosen the LibDems, and is comfortable there, let him stay put. Many people (myself amongst them) who loathed the LDs in Coalition-time, are moving to forgive them now - after all Clegg is long gone.

However - perhaps I shouldn't say too much since this came up in a private Green party meeting - the Greens are wary of forming a too-friendly alliance (call it a non-competition pact) with the LibDems - even though the strategy worked wonders in our recent local elections. There is a perception of the LDs as opportunistic and power-hungry. But that's as far as I'm prepared to go in attacking the LDs. After all, they are on 'my' side re Brex**it...!
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby Cyril Haearn » 16 Jun 2019, 9:22am

Have an look at Germany, the big parties have become small, not just two but three at least are needed to form a majority coalition in local parliaments, Habeck (Green) is expected to become Bundeskanzler soon, plusminus :?
The normal parties are having to gang up to keep the far-right afd out
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby 661-Pete » 16 Jun 2019, 9:26am

The difference is that Angela Merkel's CDU - representing mainstream Right in Germany - is far more centrist than the British Tories, which are in danger of lurching towards the far-right and lining up with the Brex**it/UKIP axis. I agree, you can't see CDU forming an alliance with AFD any time soon!
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby thirdcrank » 16 Jun 2019, 9:30am

I see that BJ is now insisting on a proper competition rather than a coronation. I take it from that, that his attempt to get through on the nod has failed.

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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby Spinners » 16 Jun 2019, 9:30am

Chuka can stay where ever he feels comfortable (bless him) but he should give his constituents the opportunity to mandate him at a by-election. it's not just Chuka, I expressed this view about the whole batch of 'changers'.

Back to the Tories - I'm still 'none of the above' but would like to see some unity around an 'ABB' candidate.
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby 661-Pete » 16 Jun 2019, 9:43am

Spinners wrote:Chuka can stay where ever he feels comfortable (bless him) but he should give his constituents the opportunity to mandate him at a by-election.
Maybe. There is precedent for that - although Taverne didn't last long. But in this case, with a GE quite likely looming anyway, perhaps Chuka is right to sit tight. People are not over-fond of by-elections: witness the small turnouts they attract.
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby [XAP]Bob » 16 Jun 2019, 9:49am

Spinners wrote:Chuka can stay where ever he feels comfortable (bless him) but he should give his constituents the opportunity to mandate him at a by-election. it's not just Chuka, I expressed this view about the whole batch of 'changers'.

Back to the Tories - I'm still 'none of the above' but would like to see some unity around an 'ABB' candidate.

They did - they voted for him not a party.

That’s why when an MP dies, or resigns in disgrace a by election is held, and you don’t just get that party nominating the next MP for wherever.
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby Oldjohnw » 16 Jun 2019, 11:38am

Churchill was all over the place.

I'm not too bothered about individuals changing allegiance. Election time comes. But when the leader - and PM- changes there should be a law that we have a GE within 6 months.
John

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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby Spinners » 16 Jun 2019, 12:12pm

[XAP]Bob wrote:
Spinners wrote:Chuka can stay where ever he feels comfortable (bless him) but he should give his constituents the opportunity to mandate him at a by-election. it's not just Chuka, I expressed this view about the whole batch of 'changers'.

Back to the Tories - I'm still 'none of the above' but would like to see some unity around an 'ABB' candidate.

They did - they voted for him not a party.

That’s why when an MP dies, or resigns in disgrace a by election is held, and you don’t just get that party nominating the next MP for wherever.


Oh, I'm well aware that there's no constitutional requirement for Chuka to stand down but his credibility is shot and the people of Streatham deserve better and sincerely hope that they invoke the 2016 Recall of MP's Act.
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby reohn2 » 16 Jun 2019, 1:09pm

Oldjohnw wrote:........... But when the leader - and PM- changes there should be a law that we have a GE within 6 months.

I'd say 3 months.
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Re: Tory leader - place your bets

Postby 661-Pete » 16 Jun 2019, 1:26pm

How long, on average, have PMs appointed in mid-term, hung on, before submitting to their first GE? I've been checking out the postwar records:
Eden: <2 months (April-May 1955).
Macmillan: 2 years 9 months (Jan 57 - Nov 59)
Douglas Home: 1 year (Oct 63 - Oct 64)
Callaghan: 3 years 1 month (Apr 76 - May 79)
Major: 1 year 5 months (Nov 90 - Apr 92)
Brown: 2 years 11 months (June 2007 - May 2010)
May: 11 months (July 16 - June 17)

So only Callaghan held out for more than three years, and it didn't exactly turn out well for him!

If BoJo does indeed get in - who knows?
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
--- Arthur Eddington (creator of the Eddington Number).