What is a Troll?

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reohn2
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Re: What is a Troll?

Postby reohn2 » 27 May 2019, 8:09pm

As I posted previously.......
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windmiller
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Re: What is a Troll?

Postby windmiller » 27 May 2019, 8:10pm

Psamathe wrote:
windmiller wrote:
Psamathe wrote:My own opinion on the subject this thread is really about is that I don't understand why somebody would spend their time posting when what they post has the effect of convincing people their position is un-justifiable and has no rational basis.

Ian


I suppose the type of people who could only define themselves through the eyes of others would agree with that statement.

No, it's about constructive use of time vs wasted time. You missed the point completely.

Ian

You wrote that you don't understand why, then you say it's about time vs wasted time, so I take it you do understand. My only concern is my own time wasted - not that of others of whose time I don't presume to know to be wasted or not. This feels like a waste of time to me.

Psamathe
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Re: What is a Troll?

Postby Psamathe » 27 May 2019, 8:27pm

windmiller wrote:
Psamathe wrote:
windmiller wrote:
I suppose the type of people who could only define themselves through the eyes of others would agree with that statement.

No, it's about constructive use of time vs wasted time. You missed the point completely.

Ian

You wrote that you don't understand why, then you say it's about time vs wasted time, so I take it you do understand. My only concern is my own time wasted - not that of others of whose time I don't presume to know to be wasted or not. This feels like a waste of time to me.

You've taken a bit of text from one post, tagged it onto a bit of text taken from a different post and think you've made a point?

People would normally spend time doing things for a reason e.g. to discuss, making people aware of their reasons for believing something whilst getting to understand other people's reasons for their beliefs and maybe to adjust their own opinions as others raise good points, etc.

E.g. when somebody states that out Civil Service is guilty of bias and holding their own agenda, makes one think wow and want more information to form a better opinion as to what has been happening and the seriousness and impacts of the allegation. But then no details are forthcoming so the time spent by the OP writing the Civil Service allegations was just wasted time - not literary fiction and not providing any information, just a pointless waste of time. But what gets irritating is that in a sensible exchange of views as is the purpose of the Brexit thread, it has wasted my time as well.

There are joke threads for untrue rubbish, the idea of the Brexit thread is for serious discussion and exchange of views and information (not wild unsubstantiated fantasy).

So I'm not going to bother wasting my time any more and I suspect others might be coming to similar conclusions.

Ian

Psamathe
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Re: What is a Troll?

Postby Psamathe » 27 May 2019, 8:30pm

reohn2 wrote:As I posted previously.......

You were right (then and now). I suspect what I've just done will further perpetuate the waste. So I'll stop and I suspect if we all stopped it would become less of an issue.

Maybe I'll give the forum blocking feature a test (and hope people stop quoting .....)

Ian

reohn2
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Re: What is a Troll?

Postby reohn2 » 27 May 2019, 8:37pm

Psamathe wrote:
reohn2 wrote:As I posted previously.......

You were right (then and now). I suspect what I've just done will further perpetuate the waste. So I'll stop and I suspect if we all stopped it would become less of an issue.

Maybe I'll give the forum blocking feature a test (and hope people stop quoting .....)

Ian

Wind up merchants are best ignored IMO,I'll do my best :wink:
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Lance Dopestrong
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Re: What is a Troll?

Postby Lance Dopestrong » 27 May 2019, 8:58pm

windmiller wrote:Well most members who hold views that differ to mine seem to be decent enough types. Only a few are of the nasty type and if they continue I will ignore them completely.


Shut it you, no one likes nice guys coming on here and winding folk up! ;) :lol:

You see, I can dig that. I'm quite up for people disagreeing with me so long as they're polite enough about it.

Alas, there are too many that demand answers, as if you owe them something, or who are simply downright rude - well, they kind of open themselves up to a bit of leg pulling, and when people do respond in that way you can almost hear the aneurysms bursting in faux-righteous indignation! :lol: It makes you wonder how some of them manage in the real world.
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Psamathe
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Re: What is a Troll?

Postby Psamathe » 27 May 2019, 9:19pm

Lance Dopestrong wrote:.......
Alas, there are too many that demand answers, as if you owe them something, or who are simply downright rude - well, they kind of open themselves up to a bit of leg pulling, and when people do respond in that way you can almost hear the aneurysms bursting in faux-righteous indignation! :lol: It makes you wonder how some of them manage in the real world.

I think in a serious discussion when somebody makes an allegation it is quite reasonable for them to be asked to provide an example/evidence that their claim has some sort of basis. Otherwise we are in a Trumpton situation where anybody can claim anything without being expected to provide any proof or justification and the claims just get wilder and the whole basis for a more serious discussion falls apart.

Ian

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Lance Dopestrong
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Re: What is a Troll?

Postby Lance Dopestrong » 27 May 2019, 10:53pm

That's a fair point. Unfortunately, some elements dont seem able to ask politely or reasonably - they make demands, get snotty, and even make rude remarks. That's no why to behave, and I won't respond to it any more than I would in real life.

Converseley, those that are willing to engage in polite discussion, ask away... alas, a quick leaf through the Brexit thread would suggest that this category are in a minority.
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Psamathe
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Re: What is a Troll?

Postby Psamathe » 27 May 2019, 11:24pm

Lance Dopestrong wrote:That's a fair point. Unfortunately, some elements dont seem able to ask politely or reasonably - they make demands, get snotty, and even make rude remarks. That's no why to behave, and I won't respond to it any more than I would in real life.

Converseley, those that are willing to engage in polite discussion, ask away... alas, a quick leaf through the Brexit thread would suggest that this category are in a minority.

It's a difficult thing. You are right but then we are human and frustration can have a cumulative effect. I have no idea which of your groups I'm in. I try to stay polite but I'm also sure that on occasions irritation has got the better of me.

Given the length and subject matter if the Brexit thread and the importance of what is happening and the strong feelings I'm surprised it has been as calm as it has (OK, moderators have intervened but it's still going so if the issues were that bad I'm sure it would have been "sin binned" ages ago).

But it is a discussion on a serious subject so ongoing Trumpy behaviour is more likely to get people reacting badly.

Ian

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Cugel
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Re: What is a Troll?

Postby Cugel » 29 May 2019, 2:02pm

windmiller wrote:Being disliked by abusing hypocrites is not a problem.


I don't dislike 'ee! Does this mean that I'm not an abusing hypocrite? I could always try harder. :-)

Cugel

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Cugel
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Re: What is a Troll?

Postby Cugel » 29 May 2019, 2:04pm

Mike Sales wrote:
windmiller wrote:Being disliked by abusing hypocrites is not a problem.


Clearly, since you keep coming back for more. One wonders why you do.


It's easier than thinking. Also the Miller is post-modern and enjoys fun-for-fun's sake. Why bother with the consequences of having fun? No one else in post-modernity does.

Cugel

Bonefishblues
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Re: What is a Troll?

Postby Bonefishblues » 29 May 2019, 3:38pm

Psamathe wrote:
Lance Dopestrong wrote:.......
Alas, there are too many that demand answers, as if you owe them something, or who are simply downright rude - well, they kind of open themselves up to a bit of leg pulling, and when people do respond in that way you can almost hear the aneurysms bursting in faux-righteous indignation! :lol: It makes you wonder how some of them manage in the real world.

I think in a serious discussion when somebody makes an allegation it is quite reasonable for them to be asked to provide an example/evidence that their claim has some sort of basis. Otherwise we are in a Trumpton situation where anybody can claim anything without being expected to provide any proof or justification and the claims just get wilder and the whole basis for a more serious discussion falls apart.

Ian

Unjustified slur on Trumpton alert :?

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Lance Dopestrong
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Re: What is a Troll?

Postby Lance Dopestrong » 29 May 2019, 4:30pm

Since when was the internet ever a place for serious discussion? Hell, they don't even do serious discussion in parliament any more :lol:
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Cugel
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Re: What is a Troll?

Postby Cugel » 29 May 2019, 4:41pm

Lance Dopestrong wrote:Since when was the internet ever a place for serious discussion? Hell, they don't even do serious discussion in parliament any more :lol:


Oh yes they do!

It's just that "serious" has been redefined to mean something other than what it once meant. Humpty now has an office in the back of them Houses of P, from which he issues daily certificates of redefinition, as required by various hooters in the chamber. The trick is to get from Humpty's office to the chamber to use the new-meaning word before Humpty redefines it again for some other liar (I mean serious politician).

Cugel suspicious of all meanings, especially the serious ones.

thirdcrank
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Re: What is a Troll?

Postby thirdcrank » 4 Jun 2019, 10:49am

I see it as another word for what I would call a wind-up merchant: light the blue touch paper and retire. The internet facilitates this through anonymity so people can be provocative with impunity, so long as they can handle anything coming back online. They may get the added pleasure of being able to get self-righteous about being victimised.

Apart from trolling, that separation from the audience means there's no immediate feedback, so even somebody who doesn't intend to cause offence may be slow to twig that they are doing so and may never find out if those they have unintentionally hurt remain silent or slip away. Then there's the style of some posters which may come across as abrasive, no matter what the topic. There are the personal characteristics of individual posters, who may be putting on an act rather than being natural. Nobody likes to be wrong, but most (?) people are OK about being corrected if it's done properly (lack of immediate feedback being a problem here.) Some simply cannot bear any suggestion of being wrong and will argue forever about any aspect of the subject to prove to themselves at least that they are infallible. "If you are in a hole, it's best to stop digging."

For me, the overriding characteristic of a troll is the absence of good faith. We have a tiny few on this forum but most tire or get bored quickly.