D-Day

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Hobbs1951
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Re: D-Day

Postby Hobbs1951 » 6 Jun 2019, 1:18pm

pete75 wrote:The point is that without the Russians engaging the bulk of the Wehrmacht D Day could never have taken place. Their contribution to it's success was immense. This should be recognised at the commerations by inviting the Russian leader to take part.


The thread title is D-Day, I suggest if you wish to start a thread about Russia in WW2 then you start one; in the meantime perhaps those that wish to share their thoughts about today's, and past events you should allow them to do so.

I think we would also do well to remember that the Russians did not liberate those countries occupied by Hitler's Germany - they were simply reoccupied by the Russians, who continued the oppression of those states.

John.

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Audax67
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Re: D-Day

Postby Audax67 » 6 Jun 2019, 1:34pm

Tangled Metal wrote:I guess my point is there's no easy way through a world war like that and there's so many ways to lose your life. It isn't the dday veterans alone we should thank but the whole generation that served in whatever way they could. Perhaps we need more recognition through mass commemoration events of other desperately courageous fights against the odds. The Arctic convoy for example or the Atlantic convoy.



This. My first boss had been a merchant sailor on the Arctic convoys. He had a gift for making his accounts of coming under attack as funny as hell, even when they "shat themselves in corners listening to shrapnel pinging off the rigging" during Stuka attacks.

My FiL almost died, too, but that was from dysentery in Egypt.
Have we got time for another cuppa?

pete75
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Re: D-Day

Postby pete75 » 6 Jun 2019, 2:01pm

Hobbs1951 wrote:
pete75 wrote:The point is that without the Russians engaging the bulk of the Wehrmacht D Day could never have taken place. Their contribution to it's success was immense. This should be recognised at the commerations by inviting the Russian leader to take part.


The thread title is D-Day, I suggest if you wish to start a thread about Russia in WW2 then you start one; in the meantime perhaps those that wish to share their thoughts about today's, and past events you should allow them to do so.

I think we would also do well to remember that the Russians did not liberate those countries occupied by Hitler's Germany - they were simply reoccupied by the Russians, who continued the oppression of those states.

John.


I doubt that D Day can be properly considered in isolation from other events of WW2. You obviously fail to realise that.

Hobbs1951
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Re: D-Day

Postby Hobbs1951 » 6 Jun 2019, 2:11pm

pete75 wrote:I doubt that D Day can be properly considered in isolation from other events of WW2. You obviously fail to realise that.


You are very good at attempting to be offensive but you clearly miss the point of the thread, plus I doubt if you have a complete understanding of WW2: it's beginnings and aftermath.

The events leading up to today's commemorations,like many commemorations, are all about the event (in this case June 6th 1944 - D-Day), your comments demonstrate a failure to appreciate this, and a failure to respect those who took part.

John.

pete75
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Re: D-Day

Postby pete75 » 6 Jun 2019, 2:14pm

Audax67 wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:I guess my point is there's no easy way through a world war like that and there's so many ways to lose your life. It isn't the dday veterans alone we should thank but the whole generation that served in whatever way they could. Perhaps we need more recognition through mass commemoration events of other desperately courageous fights against the odds. The Arctic convoy for example or the Atlantic convoy.



This. My first boss had been a merchant sailor on the Arctic convoys. He had a gift for making his accounts of coming under attack as funny as hell, even when they "shat themselves in corners listening to shrapnel pinging off the rigging" during Stuka attacks.

My FiL almost died, too, but that was from dysentery in Egypt.


I worked with a guy who'd been an AA gunner on armed merchant ships. He said during training they were told not to worry about Stukas as they were fairly easy to hit when they were pulling out of their dive. He thought that a good point until one bright spark said isn't that after they've dropped the bombs.
Three of my wife's family were there on D Day. Her father on HMS Hawkins, one uncle on HMS Mauritius and another uncle who went ashore with the Lincolns on D+4.

https://www.marketrasenmail.co.uk/news/ ... -1-1186054

Here's a log sheet which father in law kept after the war detailing HMS Hawkins actions off the Normandy Coast.
Image

gbnz
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Re: D-Day

Postby gbnz » 6 Jun 2019, 2:19pm

Hobbs1951 wrote: who continued the oppression of those states.


Suppose one of the great benefits of WW2, relates to the liberation of those hundreds of millions living in parts of the world occupied and oppressed by the British. WW2 led directly to the loss of Britains ability to oppress the locals (NB. Though to be fair, the concentration camps Britain had set up in South Africa had been closed down in the 1890's.)

gbnz
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Re: D-Day

Postby gbnz » 6 Jun 2019, 2:21pm

Hobbs1951 wrote: and a failure to respect those who took part.

John.


When do we celebrate Waterloo? Our brave boys killed the French and their allies, saving Britain for the British

pete75
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Re: D-Day

Postby pete75 » 6 Jun 2019, 2:30pm

Hobbs1951 wrote:
pete75 wrote:I doubt that D Day can be properly considered in isolation from other events of WW2. You obviously fail to realise that.


You are very good at attempting to be offensive but you clearly miss the point of the thread, plus I doubt if you have a complete understanding of WW2: it's beginnings and aftermath.

The events leading up to today's commemorations,like many commemorations, are all about the event (in this case June 6th 1944 - D-Day), your comments demonstrate a failure to appreciate this, and a failure to respect those who took part.

John.

I'm sorry if my mention of other nations involvement in the defeat of Nazi Germany doesn't fit in with your cosy little view than only Britain and the Yanks did it.

As for your point about me not having a complete understanding of WW2 and it's beginning and aftermath you're right I don't. Judging by the variety of opinions amongst professional historians I doubt anyone else does either. If you think you do then you're sadly mistaken.

Tangled Metal
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Re: D-Day

Postby Tangled Metal » 6 Jun 2019, 2:44pm

My grandad told me stories of driving trains in the South of England during the period before the battle of Britain and the raf gaining more control of our airspace. Fighters and/or fighter bombers strafing the goods trains targeting the engines. Bombs dropping either side of the track with the train driving in between. Or knocking damaged engines off the track so the goods can get through. Or sat at signals while a German pilot is lining you up, a quick jump out of the other side and hiding in the ditch.

He got a bit upset when he said his friends engine got a direct hit and he'd seen it. A big explosion and no chance.

Don't misunderstand me on this. I'm not comparing his war effort with the D-day veterans or my great uncle in the RM and POW camp (a castle in Germany). It's just that I believe they all need statues and remembering. It's a debt to a whole generation IMHO.

Hobbs1951
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Re: D-Day

Postby Hobbs1951 » 6 Jun 2019, 3:29pm

pete75 wrote: I'm sorry if my mention of other nations involvement in the defeat of Nazi Germany doesn't fit in with your cosy little view than only Britain and the Yanks did it.

As for your point about me not having a complete understanding of WW2 and it's beginning and aftermath you're right I don't. Judging by the variety of opinions amongst professional historians I doubt anyone else does either. If you think you do then you're sadly mistaken.


The thread is about remembering D-Day, you still haven't grasped that. As for your point about historians I doubt very much if you've read enough history to make that point, nor have I mentioned once the Yanks (sic). In addition, and for the reasons stated that you have not the wit to grasp, I do not have a cosy view of Britain.

Neither have you mentioned nations, you've mentioned Russia.

John.

Hobbs1951
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Re: D-Day

Postby Hobbs1951 » 6 Jun 2019, 3:35pm

Tangled Metal wrote:Don't misunderstand me on this. I'm not comparing his war effort with the D-day veterans or my great uncle in the RM and POW camp (a castle in Germany). It's just that I believe they all need statues and remembering. It's a debt to a whole generation IMHO.


I do not disagree with your point, my Wife's Grandad was an engine driver on the Southern during WW2 and during the lead up to D-Day - conveying a huge amount of war materiel at great danger to the coast.

My own Grandad was a Sergeant Fireguard in a part of greater London that received the heaviest bombardment by V1s during this period - he was awarded a medal for his contribution as part of this huge civilian army.

John.

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Mick F
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Re: D-Day

Postby Mick F » 6 Jun 2019, 3:41pm

Tangled Metal wrote: It's a debt to a whole generation IMHO.
My opinion too.

Not trying to belittle all the WW1 and WW2 veterans, but I was in HMS Ambuscade during the Falklands Conflict and it humbles me to accept what they all did for us back then. I have "issues" even remembering what we went through in 1982 .......... so goodness knows how they managed in the 40s ............... and how they manage now.
Mick F. Cornwall

pete75
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Re: D-Day

Postby pete75 » 6 Jun 2019, 5:16pm

Hobbs1951 wrote:
pete75 wrote: I'm sorry if my mention of other nations involvement in the defeat of Nazi Germany doesn't fit in with your cosy little view than only Britain and the Yanks did it.

As for your point about me not having a complete understanding of WW2 and it's beginning and aftermath you're right I don't. Judging by the variety of opinions amongst professional historians I doubt anyone else does either. If you think you do then you're sadly mistaken.


The thread is about remembering D-Day, you still haven't grasped that. As for your point about historians I doubt very much if you've read enough history to make that point, nor have I mentioned once the Yanks (sic). In addition, and for the reasons stated that you have not the wit to grasp, I do not have a cosy view of Britain.

Neither have you mentioned nations, you've mentioned Russia.

John.


What an arrogant little post. Well done. :lol:

mercalia
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Re: D-Day

Postby mercalia » 6 Jun 2019, 5:42pm

the BBC news website has some nice pictures of D-Day that have been coloured, brings them to contemporary life?
The first picture of the beach and environs with all the ships is very impressive?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/in-pictures-48544713

brynpoeth
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Re: D-Day

Postby brynpoeth » 7 Jun 2019, 6:00am

Simon Jenkins in the Grauniad thinks there is too much remembering and 'celebrating' wars
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