Walking boots - warranty claim query

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.
pwa
Posts: 9584
Joined: 2 Oct 2011, 8:55pm

Re: Walking boots - warranty claim query

Postby pwa » 13 Jun 2019, 10:02am

Bonefishblues wrote:
pwa wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:
Waterproof membranes are really only temporary


That's my feeling, though B should be entitled to expect a few years of moderate use before the membrane gives up. The boots were not cheap. The doubt about membranes is the main reason I stick to leather when choosing hill walking boots, and preferably a design with very few seams. The leather and dubbing combine to make a fairly good defence against water even without a membrane. The membrane is just an extra bit of security in such a boot.

For donkeys and donkeys I wore a pure leather boot called "La Robusta"*, recommended by Lockwoods in Leamington, and never had a problem. Progress, eh? :?

*Heavy as a heavy thing, mind!

Yes, excess weight bothers me. That's why I go for Scarpa Terra GTX. The advantages of leather (with very few seams) but lighter than most other leather boots. But regardless, you paid £130 for boots advertised as waterproof and they prove not to be. Keen need to resolve this for you, or lose good custom.

PH
Posts: 7114
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
Location: Derby
Contact:

Re: Walking boots - warranty claim query

Postby PH » 13 Jun 2019, 10:18am

They haven't in any way restricted you consumer rights, you can send them back. They've said that you can't have they? What they've done is offer you an alternative, it's up to you to accept or reject that, but it's entirely up to them to accept or reject anything else. They're not offering the option to devise your own test, makes no difference if yours is better than theirs, it's not one of your choices.

Bonefishblues
Posts: 6334
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Walking boots - warranty claim query

Postby Bonefishblues » 13 Jun 2019, 10:57am

Evidently not, but they have simply ceased communicating, which is disappointing.

PH
Posts: 7114
Joined: 21 Jan 2007, 12:31am
Location: Derby
Contact:

Re: Walking boots - warranty claim query

Postby PH » 13 Jun 2019, 11:40am

Bonefishblues wrote:Evidently not, but they have simply ceased communicating, which is disappointing.

It's what I'd expect a business to do, they've given you the options, they've rejected your alternative, if they've decided not to change their position any further dialogue would be a waste of resource. Unless they say - OK we've changed our mind - what is it you think they could say to improve the situation? Explaining why they reject your proposal is more likely to escalate the situation than resolve it, better for them to sit back and let you choose which of the available options to follow.

thirdcrank
Posts: 28648
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Walking boots - warranty claim query

Postby thirdcrank » 13 Jun 2019, 12:25pm

I think it's common with increasingly large businesses and organisations more generally, that discretion is non-existent. It's an expensive commodity. It needs a combination of training and experience, but computer-based deskilling is the norm. There's perhaps the point also that professional takers back are proliferating. Unfortunately, the genuine customer suffers.

Bonefishblues
Posts: 6334
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Walking boots - warranty claim query

Postby Bonefishblues » 13 Jun 2019, 12:32pm

PH wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:Evidently not, but they have simply ceased communicating, which is disappointing.

It's what I'd expect a business to do, they've given you the options, they've rejected your alternative, if they've decided not to change their position any further dialogue would be a waste of resource. Unless they say - OK we've changed our mind - what is it you think they could say to improve the situation? Explaining why they reject your proposal is more likely to escalate the situation than resolve it, better for them to sit back and let you choose which of the available options to follow.

They don't know their customer very well :D

philvantwo
Posts: 448
Joined: 8 Dec 2012, 6:08pm

Re: Walking boots - warranty claim query

Postby philvantwo » 13 Jun 2019, 1:54pm

I've only ever had Scarpa boots, one piece leather ones. Tried some fabric ones and the sole came unstuck after 9 months, back to the hight Street shop and exchanged for a new pair, no argument!
Online shopping is not always the best.
[color=#FF0000][/color]

Tangled Metal
Posts: 5185
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Walking boots - warranty claim query

Postby Tangled Metal » 13 Jun 2019, 3:33pm

My first good boots were scarpa sl attack soles (the ones with the groove to take berghaus yeti attack gaiters). They lasted almost 10 years before the leather cracked and stitching failed (gwax our dubbing use can rot stitching).

So I got the scarpa sl boots (classic and best 3/4 season crampon compatible b1 boot). The sole cracked in half mid walk about 4 years of use. Not too bad because I read walking more by that time.

Third scarpa were sl boots too. They just about lasted a year before the sole unit had lost most of its tred and had cracked right across both boot in steps on the same walk. A few of my walking friends said they had noticed that recently scarpa quality had dropped off a cliff. That was over 10 years ago. I've never worn scarpa since except once tried a pair in the shop. Perfect last for my feet but they're not very good any more IMHO. Built to a price then added a huge scarpa premium that's no longer warranted.

Still the old sl boots were excellent one piece, full grain leather boots with few seams and no membrane. Perfect UK walking boots but for quality IMHO.

Bonefishblues
Posts: 6334
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Walking boots - warranty claim query

Postby Bonefishblues » 14 Jun 2019, 12:46pm

She's alive, Celine's alive!

My feet may be sweaty :lol:

Good afternoon John,

thank you for your emails. We apologize for the late respond, due to a bank holiday and holiday season we can only get back to you now. We apologize for the delay.

We can not accept the waterproof test because we can not tell for sure if your socks are wet from the leaking or if there is another reason why your socks got wet like for example sweating.

We try to handle and proceed all our customers and warranties fair and therefore we have certain guidelines we need to meet to assure, we are handling all customers fair. One guideline is that we only accept the waterproof test as described, to assure that every customer does handle the waterproof test the same.

Therefore we kindly ask you to please make the test with your shoes as explained below:


ETA
...and in a glorious coincidence I had started the approved Keen test at 11.25 this morning, and guess what, water is p1ss1ng out of the toe stitching...

I will upload the images for your delectation and delight (and my friend Celine's too, of course) anon.

Let's see if this is covered by warranty.

ETFA
And here are the images (same folder as previously)

http://s300.photobucket.com/user/bfb020 ... en%20Boots

If I knew how to do a poll we'd have a poll about warranty accepted Y/N :lol:

Tangled Metal
Posts: 5185
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Walking boots - warranty claim query

Postby Tangled Metal » 14 Jun 2019, 1:56pm

Cheque's in the post!

Seriously, your confidence in the fault was not matched in your confidence in the test for the fault. If you had done it perhaps it could have been cleared sooner???

I hope Keen explain what the fault is. I suspect the way the membrane bootie is put in between the inner and outer layers created the fault. Could it be a fold in the bootie or holes created by stitching? It would be good to find out. It's probably a common fault with all brands that produce membrane boots but not common occurence versus the qty of boots produced. Ppm will be low I reckon. Although IMHO that doesn't mean membrane boots are a bad design. They can leak just at much as a membrane free boot can.

Bonefishblues
Posts: 6334
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Walking boots - warranty claim query

Postby Bonefishblues » 14 Jun 2019, 2:06pm

Obvious fault was obvious in my test, wasn't it, though.

As someone else said upthread, trouble is, procedures are procedures, so we must apply them at all costs, to everyone, no matter what. Sweaty feet indeed...(I was very polite, by the way, and didn't point out that the all-singing-all-dancing Keen membrane is supposed to let sweat pass through)

11 pairs we've got, as a family. Doesn't make us special, but it does make us rather valuable to them. Let's see how the newly re-emergent Celine does on this one.

AMMoffat
Posts: 204
Joined: 1 Dec 2007, 1:05pm

Re: Walking boots - warranty claim query

Postby AMMoffat » 14 Jun 2019, 3:37pm

As I posted previously, in my experience, Keen is a decent company to deal with so my vote is that you'll get either a refund or a replacement pair sent by return. I also agree with Keen, whether you own one pair or 100, customers should be treated equally.

thirdcrank
Posts: 28648
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Walking boots - warranty claim query

Postby thirdcrank » 14 Jun 2019, 3:45pm

They have also written to you in English. I know they all speak English, especially if you shout louder, but it's good service.

Bonefishblues
Posts: 6334
Joined: 7 Jul 2014, 9:45pm
Location: Near Bicester Oxon

Re: Walking boots - warranty claim query

Postby Bonefishblues » 14 Jun 2019, 3:49pm

@AMM
Discretion should not be exercised, ever, even if it's screamingly obvious that the customer's more than adeqately illustrated that an as-new pair of one of your most expensive boots have the water-resistance of tissue paper.

Do I paraphrase correctly? :lol:

@3C
We differ on good service and CRM.

thirdcrank
Posts: 28648
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 2:44pm

Re: Walking boots - warranty claim query

Postby thirdcrank » 14 Jun 2019, 5:44pm

I'm not saying for a moment that a rely in English makes anything else better, but it does suggest to me that they are trying to be helpful. I know you were unhappy by the failure to answer your emails in a timely manner but it seems it was a local holiday. Some firms here shut up shop for a couple of weeks over Crimbo so it's not much different.

If I went in a shop where I was a loyal customer and received poor service I'd be miffed. It's a bit different with distance selling although presumably they have your purchasing history to hand. Even if your warranty claim is met in full, it seems likely you will still be unhappy because you feel so badly treated. I don't like complaining so I prefer to move on, but if they sell what you want that can be drastic.

You have to decide what you want and see if it's attainable. It looks as though getting them to skip their own leak test is unattainable.