Language pedants

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Mick F
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Re: Language pedants

Postby Mick F » 25 Jun 2019, 8:26am

philvantwo wrote:Jeremy vine, great show!
JV replaced Jimmy Young when he retired. JY's programme was basically the same, and JV carried it on. The main difference is that JV allows people to phone in and rant. JY used to read out the comments.

His show may be ok if you like that sort of thing, but it's his voice and his personality that gets up my nose, let alone the ranting public phone-in.
Mick F. Cornwall

francovendee
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Re: Language pedants

Postby francovendee » 25 Jun 2019, 8:43am

Mick F wrote:
philvantwo wrote:Jeremy vine, great show!
JV replaced Jimmy Young when he retired. JY's programme was basically the same, and JV carried it on. The main difference is that JV allows people to phone in and rant. JY used to read out the comments.

His show may be ok if you like that sort of thing, but it's his voice and his personality that gets up my nose, let alone the ranting public phone-in.

I don't listen to it either and as for phone ins, I find they just attract all the tub thumpers, none worth giving air time!
Any Answers on Radio 4 is just the same, callers can't string a cohesive point of view together.

Oldjohnw
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Re: Language pedants

Postby Oldjohnw » 25 Jun 2019, 8:54am

Phone-ins are dangerous, or at least they were when I used to listen about 15 years ago. I used to drive a lot and that meant JY and Any Answers. Listening and driving were a potentially lethal combination. I have never listened to JV and not AA for years.

Radio 3 or Classic FM now.
John

Cycling and recycling

pwa
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Re: Language pedants

Postby pwa » 25 Jun 2019, 8:59am

I'm waiting for someone to invent a radio that detects when a song has finished playing and goes straight to another song, cutting out the DJ, the ads and the jingles. I would deactivate that function for Desert Island Discs.

mattheus
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Re: Language pedants

Postby mattheus » 25 Jun 2019, 9:06am

pwa wrote:I'm waiting for someone to invent a radio that detects when a song has finished playing and goes straight to another song, cutting out the DJ, the ads and the jingles. I would deactivate that function for Desert Island Discs.


That should be easy - it's basically just Time Travel.

kwackers
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Re: Language pedants

Postby kwackers » 25 Jun 2019, 9:08am

pwa wrote:but when all is said and done it is not that important.

Not always but it can be.

"Grammar is the difference between knowing you're sht and knowing your sht."

reohn2
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Re: Language pedants

Postby reohn2 » 25 Jun 2019, 9:29am

Oldjohnw wrote:Punctuation is hugely important. Without correct punctuation meanings can massively change.

It wasn't punctuation Fry was on about,more the way people complain about say Americanisations being used in their ever so precious English language.
It's the fact that people think they own the language and that it's set in stone at a point in time,when nothing can be further from the truth.
Language is constantly evolving,eg;term a youngster's bike as 'sick' and s/he will take it as compliment :wink:
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reohn2
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Re: Language pedants

Postby reohn2 » 25 Jun 2019, 9:34am

kwackers wrote:
pwa wrote:but when all is said and done it is not that important.

Not always but it can be.

"Grammar is the difference between knowing you're sht and knowing your sht."

And language is about communicating yer sht :wink:
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kwackers
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Re: Language pedants

Postby kwackers » 25 Jun 2019, 9:39am

reohn2 wrote:It wasn't punctuation Fry was on about,more the way people complain about say Americanisations being used in their ever so precious English language.

I'm good with the Americans having their own version - as long as they call it American and not English. ;)

reohn2
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Re: Language pedants

Postby reohn2 » 25 Jun 2019, 9:47am

kwackers wrote:
reohn2 wrote:It wasn't punctuation Fry was on about,more the way people complain about say Americanisations being used in their ever so precious English language.

I'm good with the Americans having their own version - as long as they call it American and not English. ;)

It's a bit like a virus,it's in the air and you can't avoid it at time :wink:

PS,have a nice day :mrgreen:
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slowster
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Re: Language pedants

Postby slowster » 25 Jun 2019, 9:52am

kwackers wrote:Despite what I said above I don't usually have much of a problem with spelling, correctness of grammar etc - although either can 'trip' me up whilst reading.
The proviso is of course that I can actually understand the meaning behind the words.

pwa wrote:I would liken the the quality and precision of written English to the quality and precision of interior decorating. It is very satisfying when you see it done well, without blobs in the paintwork or inaccurate wallpapering, but when all is said and done it is not that important.

Mistakes are inevitable in a medium like a public internet forum, and they rarely prevent my understanding what the writer meant. However, I always think that while I might understand it, there may be others who will not, e.g. people whose first language is not English or who have dyslexia or a similar condition. So I think it is important to try to avoid spelling and punctuation mistakes and to try to say what I mean as clearly and concisely as possible.

I am always impressed by those who post detailed explanations on the Bikes and Bits board of something which is technically complex and difficult to communicate in written words, especially without photographs. Those posters have obviously gone to some trouble to compose their post in order to communicate their meaning as accurately, precisely and concisely as possible. In doing so they show a great deal of consideration, courtesy and respect for their potential readers.

Whilst the Tea Shop is a place for more general discussion and chat, it is still communication using the written word, but some posters have little respect for the reader judging by their posts: this forum is just a virtual megaphone for them and the rest of us are just their audience.

kwackers wrote:There are two folk on here who off the top of my head often have me scratching my noggin trying to figure out exactly what it is they're talking about, my 'gut feeling' being it's often not what I think.

My impression is that those posters like the sound of their own (written) voice more than actually trying to communicate with the potential readers. I think they confuse their verbose florid posts with literary style, when it's just a pretentious affectation which immediately prompts me to move on to the next post instead. Like careless spelling and grammar, such a posting style just shows a lack of consideration for - or even an indifference to - the reader.

mattheus
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Re: Language pedants

Postby mattheus » 25 Jun 2019, 9:54am

kwackers wrote:I'm good with the Americans ...


<shudders>

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Language pedants

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 25 Jun 2019, 10:12am

Hi,
reohn2 wrote:I listened to Stephen Fry on the Jeremy Vine show at lunchtime.The man was spot on IMO when complained about the languag police that seem to infect social media these days.
I don't know if anyone heard it?

I thought I understood what you said.
But now I'm not so sure reading the replies.
After reading your post I'm sure you were complaining about people who go and complain that language is being distorted et cetera.

Unfortunately after reading the replies it simply turned out to be another rant post.
With reference to posters who can't be understood.

I refer to The un written rule not to pick up on peoples spelling.
A written role is also not to let gripes with posters spill into other posts.

unfortunately some post subjects always attract self professed intelligence.

Talking of bikes or Skills of the hand, if someone has a little dodgy method, the best thing to do is to give an alternative solution Giving sound advice Based on experience, not simply to criticise.
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reohn2
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Re: Language pedants

Postby reohn2 » 25 Jun 2019, 10:15am

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
reohn2 wrote:I listened to Stephen Fry on the Jeremy Vine show at lunchtime.The man was spot on IMO when complained about the languag police that seem to infect social media these days.
I don't know if anyone heard it?

I thought I understood what you said.
But now I'm not so sure reading the replies.
After reading your post I'm sure you were complaining about people who go and complain that language is being distorted et cetera.

Unfortunately after reading the replies it simply turned out to be another rant post.
With reference to posters who can't be understood.

I refer to The un written rule not to pick up on peoples spelling.
A written role is also not to let gripes with posters spill into other posts.

unfortunately some post subjects always attract self professed intelligence.

Talking of bikes or Skills of the hand, if someone has a little dodgy method, the best thing to do is to give an alternative solution Giving sound advice Based on experience, not simply to criticise.

I agree wholeheartedly.
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merseymouth
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Re: Language pedants

Postby merseymouth » 25 Jun 2019, 11:38am

Hi again, Surely language became more defined & controlled when Caxton started to print books? When all readily available history was verbal spelling was irrelevant, bu with more books being accessible spelling had become controlled, hence the need for lexicons! Write what you mean, mean what you write. :D MM