Hydrogen Vehicles

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PDQ Mobile
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Re: Hydrogen Vehicles

Postby PDQ Mobile » 2 Jul 2019, 10:55am

Ben@Forest wrote:The cleanliness of all elecric vehicles depends upon their energy source (though of course point pollution is easier to treat than diffuse pollution). But France has an entirely electrified railway and very low carbon emissions in terms of energy production through 58 nuclear power stations.

So you takes your choice - for better or worse it's what France does. It's difficult to know how sensible or not it is; I did see reports that the recent heatwave would cause some reactors to be shut down due to low river levels, which does make you wonder about their efficacy in the future.


I agree and it is something of a conundrum.
Do we continue with a nuclear base load capacity or not?
Though it is a decision that will have to be taken with regard to road transport rather than rail IMV.
We already have enough capacity to run an electric railway network I think.

Regarding France, the country's dependence on nuclear is well documented, but it is not their only source.
Much hydro, solar, biomass and, most noticeably for French travellers, wind (7gigawatts max) have been installed as low carbon sources in the last couple of decades. And they continue to build more.

http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/france/
Last edited by PDQ Mobile on 2 Jul 2019, 10:56am, edited 2 times in total.

roubaixtuesday
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Re: Hydrogen Vehicles

Postby roubaixtuesday » 2 Jul 2019, 10:55am

Ben@Forest wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:
Ben@Forest wrote: I did see reports that the recent heatwave would cause some reactors to be shut down due to low river levels, which does make you wonder about their efficacy in the future.


A rather ironic argument given that the intensity of the heat wave has been exacerbated by fossil fuel emissions...


Wasn't intended to be an argument - simply a reflection - and their long-term use. Though to be fair France is trying to reduce its dependence on nuclear.



Sorry, poor choice of words on my part - I was also just trying to reflect the irony, no intent to argue!

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Re: Hydrogen Vehicles

Postby PDQ Mobile » 2 Jul 2019, 11:00am

Mick F wrote:Have you any idea what the railways are like down here?

Having been on the railways in Europe, the terrain is nothing like it is down here. It's bad enough cycling down here without building railways and then electrifying them. All the good easy ones were removed by Beeching.

Take the train from Exeter all the way to Penzance, let alone the branch lines, and you'll see the issues.


I thought you could point us to the issues because you wrote the above!
Sorry if I got it wrong.

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Mick F
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Re: Hydrogen Vehicles

Postby Mick F » 2 Jul 2019, 11:12am

I'm repeating what I hear.
As far as I know, the geography and the curves and narrowness of the rail beds plus the fact that Penzance is at the end of the line make the whole idea of electrification non-viable.

There's no way that they'll electrify the Cornish and Devon-ish branch lines even though the trains are packed at commuter times and with summer tourists.
Mick F. Cornwall

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Mick F
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Re: Hydrogen Vehicles

Postby Mick F » 2 Jul 2019, 11:16am

PS:
There has been - and continues to be - discussion or re-opening the Exeter/Okehampton/Tavistock/Plymouth main line as an avoidance strategy of Dawlish.

The rail beds are still there, so it's just a matter of laying the track ............ but there's no money available. New lines have to be built to modern standards, and it's just not viable.

We're lucky to have a line down west. Even if it is vulnerable.
Mick F. Cornwall

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bigjim
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Re: Hydrogen Vehicles

Postby bigjim » 2 Jul 2019, 11:24am

New lines have to be built to modern standards, and it's just not viable.

That is so annoying when the bean counters come up with these excuses.! It's viable I'm sure to the poor traveler who is left with little choice or no choice! Quality of life is never considered, just profitability. I don't like Corbyn much, but I can see his point about re-nationalizing public services but of course it's "not viable".
Nothing left to prove.

kwackers
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Re: Hydrogen Vehicles

Postby kwackers » 2 Jul 2019, 11:39am

bigjim wrote:
New lines have to be built to modern standards, and it's just not viable.

That is so annoying when the bean counters come up with these excuses.! It's viable I'm sure to the poor traveler who is left with little choice or no choice! Quality of life is never considered, just profitability. I don't like Corbyn much, but I can see his point about re-nationalizing public services but of course it's "not viable".

The bean counters job is simply to provide excuses for politicians.

Whenever there's political will money magically appears...
Look how much Boris and Twunt are promising!
Could lay a fair bit of line for that sort of dosh...

Ben@Forest
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Re: Hydrogen Vehicles

Postby Ben@Forest » 2 Jul 2019, 12:59pm

Mick F wrote:PS:
There has been - and continues to be - discussion or re-opening the Exeter/Okehampton/Tavistock/Plymouth main line as an avoidance strategy of Dawlish.

The rail beds are still there, so it's just a matter of laying the track ............ but there's no money available. New lines have to be built to modern standards, and it's just not viable.

We're lucky to have a line down west. Even if it is vulnerable.


Viability is always about use. Projections about how many people will use such lines is always the killer. New track will of course be expensive but electric locos are far lighter than steam and diesel, so presumably a lot less aggregate has to be used.

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Re: Hydrogen Vehicles

Postby Vorpal » 2 Jul 2019, 1:01pm

Not viable = insufficient political will
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

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Mick F
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Re: Hydrogen Vehicles

Postby Mick F » 2 Jul 2019, 2:01pm

Vorpal wrote:Not viable = insufficient political will
Yes.

Scrap HS2? Is there a political will for that? The House is split ..................... like it is on most things these days. :roll:
Mick F. Cornwall

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Re: Hydrogen Vehicles

Postby reohn2 » 2 Jul 2019, 2:17pm

Vorpal wrote:Not viable = insufficient political will

+1.
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I cycle therefore I am.

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Re: Hydrogen Vehicles

Postby PDQ Mobile » 2 Jul 2019, 2:47pm

Mick F wrote:I'm repeating what I hear.
As far as I know, the geography and the curves and narrowness of the rail beds plus the fact that Penzance is at the end of the line make the whole idea of electrification non-viable.

There's no way that they'll electrify the Cornish and Devon-ish branch lines even though the trains are packed at commuter times and with summer tourists.


Well you hear proper nonsense.
Down the Brexit ban pub was it?

There is no reason why any railway curve, narrow cutting or steep gradient cannot be electrified.

Tunnel and bridge heights are more of an issue but not insurmountable.

merseymouth
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Re: Hydrogen Vehicles

Postby merseymouth » 2 Jul 2019, 4:02pm

Hello Playmates, The electrification of the Liverpool - Manchester line was questioned because of the Listed Status of the Rainhill Bridge, original Rocket route. I believe they overcame the problem by lowering the track not raising the bridge, simples.
So maybe a few tunnels could use the same option?
But it always annoys me when viability is cited over railways, yet never gets raised over road projects, I wonder why :roll: . TTFN MM

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Mick F
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Re: Hydrogen Vehicles

Postby Mick F » 2 Jul 2019, 7:49pm

PDQ Mobile wrote:Well you hear proper nonsense.
Down the Brexit ban pub was it?
There is no reason why any railway curve, narrow cutting or steep gradient cannot be electrified.
Oh yes there is!

No, it wasn't anything "down the pub" but pure news and info.

Try paying for it.
Widen the rail beds, widen the cuttings and the banks, and re-lay the track beds.
All can be done of course.
You pay for it.

Not viable.
Too difficult.

This is until the political will decides to.
EU Objective One won't do it, so how do you think anyone else will?
Mick F. Cornwall

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Re: Hydrogen Vehicles

Postby PDQ Mobile » 2 Jul 2019, 9:14pm

Well you can't blame EU Objective 1, can you?
Or you could get accused of hypocrisy.


There is no mainline railway that could not be electrified, that is my opinion.
Narrow cuttings simply require different cable carriers.
No curve is too steep.
What are these issues? I ask again. Citation?

And try not paying for it!!
In twenty years it's costs will have gone even more through the roof and cheap fossil fuels will be ever scarcer and hence more expensive.
Electrifying it would future proof it for the next generations.Our grandchildren.

Goods and people in and out of Cornwall sustainably for the foreseeable future.
You know it makes sense!