Hydrogen Vehicles

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Cyril Haearn
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Re: Hydrogen Vehicles

Post by Cyril Haearn »

Switzerland is a bit like Cornwall, has a lot of railways, if the hill gets too steep the train drags itself up on a rack :wink:
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Mark R
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Re: Hydrogen Vehicles

Post by Mark R »

Yep Swiss federal rail is 100% electric. TBH the terrain of Cornwall is pretty tame in comparison. No excuse whatsoever for sticking with the filthy cancerous diesels on the branch lines let alone on the main routes.
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bigjim
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Re: Hydrogen Vehicles

Post by bigjim »

PDQ Mobile wrote:It's a huge plus for leccy vehicles and trains that no fuel is used when stationary.

Surely that is the same for liquid fuels? Also if they running heating or aircon that will use juice.
Talking of hills, the Electric train from Soller to Palma in Mallorca goes over a mountain! It's over a hundred years old and made by English Electric in Trafford Park Manchester. There is a big brass plaque in the drivers cab. Originally used to transport oranges to the port.
PDQ Mobile
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Re: Hydrogen Vehicles

Post by PDQ Mobile »

Mick F wrote:
[XAP]Bob wrote:For a train it makes no sense, since you can electrify the lines pretty easily, and have some battery storage if required for emergencies (like braking after the grid gets cut off)
al_yrpal wrote: :lol: Tell that to the folk who are electrifying the Great Western!
PDQ Mobile wrote:There is a wealth of expetience in Europe electrifying railways, perhaps they should go over and get a few tips!!
Have you any idea what the railways are like down here?

Having been on the railways in Europe, the terrain is nothing like it is down here. It's bad enough cycling down here without building railways and then electrifying them. All the good easy ones were removed by Beeching.

Take the train from Exeter all the way to Penzance, let alone the branch lines, and you'll see the issues.

So come on what are the special "issues"?
Tell us please.
Have YOU ever been on an Alpine railway?

Any mainline gradients are not a problem.
Indeed leccy trains are easier on the trackbed because of the smooth and incredible torque.
They leave diesels standing on acceleration.

Clearly old lines present some tricky bits and headroom in old tunnels/bridges may be an issue depending on engine height.

Build a slightly lower engine unit so there's room for the pick-up mast is one obvious solution?

No fumes in said tunnels is just another electric advantage.

Your Cornish railways could be running on tide, wave, wind, biomass and solar, or whatever generating source becomes available on and on into the foreseeable future. Future proof.
Mike Sales
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Re: Hydrogen Vehicles

Post by Mike Sales »

bigjim wrote:
PDQ Mobile wrote:It's a huge plus for leccy vehicles and trains that no fuel is used when stationary.

Surely that is the same for liquid fuels?

Only if the engine is switched off, and so many drivers are reluctant to do that. I see, hear and smell lots of vehicles stationary, engine running with or without the driver, for minutes at a time. Why do they do that? I hope those drivers don't whinge about the price of fuel.
Last edited by Mike Sales on 1 Jul 2019, 10:45pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PDQ Mobile
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Re: Hydrogen Vehicles

Post by PDQ Mobile »

bigjim wrote:
PDQ Mobile wrote:It's a huge plus for leccy vehicles and trains that no fuel is used when stationary.

Surely that is the same for liquid fuels? Also if they running heating or aircon that will use juice.
Talking of hills, the Electric train from Soller to Palma in Mallorca goes over a mountain! It's over a hundred years old and made by English Electric in Trafford Park Manchester. There is a big brass plaque in the drivers cab. Originally used to transport oranges to the port.

I have been on the Soller railway.
It's great.
Especially enjoyed the being able to stand on the open "porches" at the carriage ends.
It does go through the mountain too, I remember a tunnel.

Actually most diesel (or other liquid fuel)buses and trains do continue to run their engines at stops and stations. And in the case of buses in traffic jams too.
Electric power in the case of trains is still used for air conditioning, lighting etc of course, but in that sense it is not simply wasted as in a stationary diesel and it's clean of course. Most trains have back up batteries to cover those systems in event of overhead power failure.
I remember traveling to Inverness on the sleeper, Intercity125 I think, beast of a thing.
Idling away in Inverness station it produced a stench and a fug that was truly and memorably foul.
Such a contrast to a leccy one, freshly rolled into gay Paris, fly bespattered and hot but stench and noise free.
Ben@Forest
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Re: Hydrogen Vehicles

Post by Ben@Forest »

The cleanliness of all elecric vehicles depends upon their energy source (though of course point pollution is easier to treat than diffuse pollution). But France has an entirely electrified railway and very low carbon emissions in terms of energy production through 58 nuclear power stations.

So you takes your choice - for better or worse it's what France does. It's difficult to know how sensible or not it is; I did see reports that the recent heatwave would cause some reactors to be shut down due to low river levels, which does make you wonder about their efficacy in the future.
roubaixtuesday
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Re: Hydrogen Vehicles

Post by roubaixtuesday »

Ben@Forest wrote:The cleanliness of all elecric vehicles depends upon their energy source .


Interestingly, unless the electricity is coal generated, e- vehicles are so much more efficient than ICE that carbon emissions are lower regardless of source. The UK burns almost zero coal.

Ben@Forest wrote: I did see reports that the recent heatwave would cause some reactors to be shut down due to low river levels, which does make you wonder about their efficacy in the future.


A rather ironic argument given that the intensity of the heat wave has been exacerbated by fossil fuel emissions...
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Mick F
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Re: Hydrogen Vehicles

Post by Mick F »

PDQ Mobile wrote:So come on what are the special "issues"?
Tell us please.
Ask Great Western, not me.
All I'm doing is relaying the facts to you.

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-t ... -mainline/
No mention of anywhere into the SW.

Read all 296 pages or join in?
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gr ... 2/page-265
Mick F. Cornwall
Ben@Forest
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Re: Hydrogen Vehicles

Post by Ben@Forest »

roubaixtuesday wrote:
Ben@Forest wrote: I did see reports that the recent heatwave would cause some reactors to be shut down due to low river levels, which does make you wonder about their efficacy in the future.


A rather ironic argument given that the intensity of the heat wave has been exacerbated by fossil fuel emissions...


Wasn't intended to be an argument - simply a reflection - and their long-term use. Though to be fair France is trying to reduce its dependence on nuclear.
francovendee
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Re: Hydrogen Vehicles

Post by francovendee »

I see the EU now wants EV's to have some form of sound warning when travelling at low speed. Now that is a good idea, how about Mr Whippy chimes? :D
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Mick F
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Re: Hydrogen Vehicles

Post by Mick F »

Chatting about this on the Prius forum.
https://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums ... e-a-noise/

Silly idea IMHO.
Pedestrians don't look, as I've noticed for years when cycling. We had a Clio 1.6 16v for many years bought new in 2001, and that was silent at walking pace at tickover. Many was the time we surprised walkers on the lanes. Now have a Yaris Hybrid, and I reckon under EV drive, it's the same as the Clio.

The new rules only regulate for going forwards. No noise regs for reversing! :lol:

All that's required, is for pedestrians to look and pay attention when crossing the road, or walking along a pavement-less lane. Also, bicycles have bells and cars have a horn. Nothing wrong with a friendly ding or toot.

Could it be that the rise of the diesel cars have made pedestrians think that all cars rattle at tickover?
Mick F. Cornwall
kwackers
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Re: Hydrogen Vehicles

Post by kwackers »

Mick F wrote:The new rules only regulate for going forwards. No noise regs for reversing! :lol:

Apart from the bit that says "when reversing".
reohn2
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Re: Hydrogen Vehicles

Post by reohn2 »

PDQ Mobile wrote:
Mick F wrote:
[XAP]Bob wrote:For a train it makes no sense, since you can electrify the lines pretty easily, and have some battery storage if required for emergencies (like braking after the grid gets cut off)
al_yrpal wrote: :lol: Tell that to the folk who are electrifying the Great Western!
PDQ Mobile wrote:There is a wealth of expetience in Europe electrifying railways, perhaps they should go over and get a few tips!!
Have you any idea what the railways are like down here?

Having been on the railways in Europe, the terrain is nothing like it is down here. It's bad enough cycling down here without building railways and then electrifying them. All the good easy ones were removed by Beeching.

Take the train from Exeter all the way to Penzance, let alone the branch lines, and you'll see the issues.

So come on what are the special "issues"?
Tell us please.
Have YOU ever been on an Alpine railway?

Any mainline gradients are not a problem.
Indeed leccy trains are easier on the trackbed because of the smooth and incredible torque.
They leave diesels standing on acceleration.

Clearly old lines present some tricky bits and headroom in old tunnels/bridges may be an issue depending on engine height.

Build a slightly lower engine unit so there's room for the pick-up mast is one obvious solution?

No fumes in said tunnels is just another electric advantage.

Your Cornish railways could be running on tide, wave, wind, biomass and solar, or whatever generating source becomes available on and on into the foreseeable future. Future proof.

Electric trains could run on battery power through tunnels with the mast retracted and recharge out the other side when reconnected to the "mains" .
As I posted earlier in the thread it's not beyond the ken of man to solve the problems.Profit though gets in the way of service.
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reohn2
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Re: Hydrogen Vehicles

Post by reohn2 »

francovendee wrote:I see the EU now wants EV's to have some form of sound warning when travelling at low speed. Now that is a good idea, how about Mr Whippy chimes? :D

Noooooo,everyone will be trying to stop them for a 99 :shock: :wink:

I'll get me coat.....
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