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Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape
Posted: 4 Aug 2019, 7:48pm
by Cyril Haearn
I think supply has to come before demand in this case
Think of smartphones: supply came first
Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape
Posted: 4 Aug 2019, 7:53pm
by landsurfer
Cyril Haearn wrote:I think supply has to come before demand in this case
Think of smartphones: supply came first
Actually .. and i apologise for being a pedant .... mobile phones came first, then the marketing guys realised the market was fixed so the emperors new clothes effect was started .... small phones, flip phones, .. smart phones .... it was a process ... but yes i broadly agree .... It does backfire sometimes ... think Betamax and Phillips 2000 .....the Phillips system ended up fitted to Panavia Tornado as a data logger as the quality of its data recording was superb ...
Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape
Posted: 4 Aug 2019, 7:59pm
by kwackers
landsurfer wrote:I both laugh and frown at the same time at your lack of understanding of engineering ....
My understanding of engineering tells me that multiplying the efficiency of the generator by the efficiency of the battery by the efficiency of the electric motor doesn't give me more than 100%.
Therefore the power from the generator would be better fed to the wheels and used directly thus removing two terms from the above equation.
No such thing as "self charging" it's a marketing gimmick.
They're just hybrids and their only advantage is regenerative braking.
Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape
Posted: 4 Aug 2019, 8:03pm
by kwackers
661-Pete wrote:Will it happen in our lifetimes?
Absolutely.
Good EV's have waiting lists, every manufacturer has a whole range of them in development. BMW claim they'll have 22(?) models out in the next couple of years.
We're just coming over the hill, it's all downhill from now so just watch as the pace of change starts to crank up.
It's only a couple of years ago we had a similar discussion about e-bikes and most folk thought they'd do nothing, nobody wanted them, too complex, didn't solve a problem, too expensive.
Now you can't move for them around me, I see more e-bikes now than normal bikes - and not cheap and cheerful conversions like mine either, £2k+ versions seem to abound.
Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape
Posted: 4 Aug 2019, 9:04pm
by [XAP]Bob
Yes it will change the landscape - but such terraces will be the last places to change. You’ll have car parks for charging...
You might even have a few electric points on the kerbside - with the car registering who it is when it plugs in to bill for the power (you don’t need a cable to your house, just a reasonably standard way to charge for power.
Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape
Posted: 4 Aug 2019, 9:21pm
by Mike Sales
[XAP]Bob wrote:Yes it will change the landscape - but such terraces will be the last places to change. You’ll have car parks for charging...
You might even have a few electric points on the kerbside - with the car registering who it is when it plugs in to bill for the power (you don’t need a cable to your house, just a reasonably standard way to charge for power.
I used to live in a street with narrow fronted terraces on both sides. The street itself was too narrow to allow parking on both sides. As it was in the town centre commuters grabbed any space they found empty. The nearest parking was farther than the average motorist liked to walk. Some of the houses were used by students who might well have more than one car per household. It was a recipe for conflict.
It would be even more fun with charging points.
Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape
Posted: 4 Aug 2019, 10:05pm
by reohn2
Mike Sales wrote: .....It would be even more fun with charging points.
But if you came home in your Ecar and needed it charged for the following day,yet knew you only stood a 50/50 chance of getting on charge point you'd either walk say the 300 to 500m home from the nearest charge point or you'd have thought ahead and had it charging where it's been parked at your destination or have a battery change at the local swap station.
I don't think Ecars will be a total answer but if they are 60 or 70% of private cars and a much better public transport system with active travel and more local food shops,internet food shopping,etc,etc,whatever but the UK needs to trethinkmit's private travel system.
Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape
Posted: 4 Aug 2019, 10:10pm
by Mike Sales
reohn2 wrote:Mike Sales wrote: .....It would be even more fun with charging points.
But if you came home in your Ecar and needed it charged for the following dayyet knew you only stood a 50/50 chance of getting on charge point you'd either walk say the 300 to 500m home from the nearest charge point or you'd have thought ahead and had it charging where it's been parked at your destination or have a battery change at the local swap station.
I don't think Ecars will be a total answer but if they are 60 or 70% of private cars and a much better public transport system with active travel and more local food shops,internet food shopping,etc,etc, whatever but the UK needs to trethinkmit's private travel system.
Quite, but car users expect things to be rather more convenient. In fact they demand it. Perhaps you have seen the TV programmes
Parking Wars?
Oh dear, what a pity, never mind.
Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape
Posted: 4 Aug 2019, 10:13pm
by kwackers
Mike Sales wrote:I used to live in a street with narrow fronted terraces on both sides. The street itself was too narrow to allow parking on both sides. As it was in the town centre commuters grabbed any space they found empty. The nearest parking was farther than the average motorist liked to walk. Some of the houses were used by students who might well have more than one car per household. It was a recipe for conflict.
It would be even more fun with charging points.
I know people who live like that now.
They're careful about what times they go out in the car so that when they get back they'll still have a parking space. Often they won't use the car because they don't want to lose the space.
What sort of car ownership is that? Charging is the least of their worries.
Eventually self driving and shared ownership will knock that sort of nonsense on the head although we're still a while off that.
Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape
Posted: 4 Aug 2019, 10:18pm
by Mike Sales
kwackers wrote:Mike Sales wrote:I used to live in a street with narrow fronted terraces on both sides. The street itself was too narrow to allow parking on both sides. As it was in the town centre commuters grabbed any space they found empty. The nearest parking was farther than the average motorist liked to walk. Some of the houses were used by students who might well have more than one car per household. It was a recipe for conflict.
It would be even more fun with charging points.
I know people who live like that now.
They're careful about what times they go out in the car so that when they get back they'll still have a parking space. Often they won't use the car because they don't want to lose the space.
What sort of car ownership is that? Charging is the least of their worries.
Eventually self driving and shared ownership will knock that sort of nonsense on the head although we're still a while off that.
I am not knocking electric cars, I am all for them. And of course they will not solve our car problems.
It is just that in this case, for a time, they will complicate the difficulties.
I do not sympathise with these people.
More than once I had to lift my bike above my head and sidle sideways in order to get to my front door steps.
Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape
Posted: 4 Aug 2019, 10:29pm
by reohn2
Mike Sales wrote:Quite, but car users expect things to be rather more convenient. In fact they demand it. Perhaps you have seen the TV programmes Parking Wars?
Oh dear, what a pity, never mind.
That's why I said we need to rethink personal travel,as at present it's grossly inefficient.
Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape
Posted: 4 Aug 2019, 10:55pm
by cycleruk
Up thread mentions cable across pavements - no problem - run them overhead. Simples.
Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape
Posted: 4 Aug 2019, 11:41pm
by Mike_Ayling
pwa wrote:I raised these issues some time ago on this forum, especially the potential problem for blind or elderly people of having cables draped over pavements, and was assured that this will not be a problem. So that's okay then.
Some years ago I used to ride tandem with a vision impaired bloke and he told me then that the vision impaired community was becoming quite concerned about the increasing number of e cars because they are a lot quieter than those with i/c engines and more difficult to hear approaching thus creating more difficulty when crossing roads.
Mike
Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape
Posted: 5 Aug 2019, 6:34am
by Cunobelin
kwackers wrote:I do think charging at home is a slightly odd thing.
Why do people want to do it? It's never occurred to them to run a petrol line to their car so why should they worry about running a power line?
Why not simply go somewhere and charge it up?
Folk obviously do it since there are always cars charging at the supermarket / cinema etc when I'm out and about. I don't see why that won't simply expand.
Anyway the problem at the moment is that there is no problem.
There are lots of potential solutions but they're not yet needed. Once the number of cars start to increase then we'll start to see solutions being implemented.
On the positive side hopefully it'll mean all those folk who park on the pavement outside their houses because they can't be bothered using their drive will have an incentive to do so.
Because the systems are different?
I will top up my car on the way home tonight. It is on my way home and will take 2 or three minutes, however, if I nip to a public charger with an electric car that maybe 5 or not 6 hours
It depends on the power output of the chargers. and even with the highest output is over an hour for a top-up
Re: E cars and the change to the urban landscape
Posted: 5 Aug 2019, 6:47am
by Spinners
Mike_Ayling wrote:
Some years ago I used to ride tandem with a vision impaired bloke and he told me then that the vision impaired community was becoming quite concerned about the increasing number of e cars because they are a lot quieter than those with i/c engines and more difficult to hear approaching thus creating more difficulty when crossing roads.
Playing card in the spokes