All-female cabinet?

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brynpoeth
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All-female cabinet?

Postby brynpoeth » 13 Aug 2019, 6:03am

A fairly well known female politician suggests an all-female cabinet to get us out of This Mess

A letter in the Grauniad points out that all her suggested ministers are white, and eight of the ten studied or taught at Russell Group universities, looks like another Elite Cabinet

Just a fantasy, one fears, minusplus?
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Tangled Metal
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Re: All-female cabinet?

Postby Tangled Metal » 13 Aug 2019, 8:17am

Define elite please?

I believe the late John Prescot was working class to the marrow but became deputy prime minister which I would suggest is a kind of elite level in the field of politics.

I only point out that anyone in the cabinet will be an elite by reason of their position in the cabinet and in political circles. Perhaps a cabinet of non-elites is possible but can you really get a cabinet made up of non - MPs say from Hull working men's club or Sunderland football supporters club or perhaps a minor rugby club's second team from the Welsh Valleys? Other non-elites with views on how to run the country are available of course. Mine were only examples plucked from my caffeine fueled mind. :D

BTW my feelings on this idea, based on only gut feeling without looking into her proposal, is that any single gender candidate groupings without a really good reason behind them is a bad idea. But then I'm an eternal optimist who still hopes that the best person will one day always get the job. I'm more forties and have yet to see it happen, ever!

Tangled Metal
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Re: All-female cabinet?

Postby Tangled Metal » 13 Aug 2019, 8:18am

BTW studying at a Russell group university doesn't always mean much. I went to two different Russell group universities and got degrees in both. Point proven! :wink:

Oldjohnw
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Re: All-female cabinet?

Postby Oldjohnw » 13 Aug 2019, 8:29am

I don't see an argument against Russell Group Universities. I do see an argument against an all women group (although all men or almost all men groups have run the show for quite a while).

This seems to me to be an uncharacteristically wrong foot by the normally very politically astute Caroline Lucas.
John

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661-Pete
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Re: All-female cabinet?

Postby 661-Pete » 13 Aug 2019, 8:50am

Tangled Metal wrote:I believe the late John Prescot was working class....
"The late"? "The late"???!!! Last time I heard, John Prescott was still very much alive.

Anyway I'm finding it more and more meaningless to interpret the terms "working class", "middle class", etc. etc., What defines class? What defines "the elite"? John Major would definitely have been defined, from his background, as working class - yet he became Tory PM. My own father, from his background and education, would certainly have been bracketed middle-class - but for the last 30 years of his life, his occupation, arguably, labelled him working class...

As to Caroline's 'cabinet' - her mistake was to offer the hostile Press a field-day. My guess is, she selected a group of women who she felt most able to do the job. She certainly had in mind the predominance of men in political power. It was probably only after publishing the list that she realised there was no BAME representation. Diane Abbott says she ought to have been included. From what I know or guess of these two esteemed ladies, they would not have chimed very well...
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Psamathe
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Re: All-female cabinet?

Postby Psamathe » 13 Aug 2019, 9:04am

Oldjohnw wrote:I don't see an argument against Russell Group Universities. I do see an argument against an all women group (although all men or almost all men groups have run the show for quite a while).

This seems to me to be an uncharacteristically wrong foot by the normally very politically astute Caroline Lucas.

I would agree. Seems to me we need the most capable people irrespective of gender. Normally Ms Lucas comes up with pretty sensible stuff so this idea of hers is a bit disappointing.

Ian

reohn2
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Re: All-female cabinet?

Postby reohn2 » 13 Aug 2019, 9:11am

Psamathe wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:I don't see an argument against Russell Group Universities. I do see an argument against an all women group (although all men or almost all men groups have run the show for quite a while).

This seems to me to be an uncharacteristically wrong foot by the normally very politically astute Caroline Lucas.

I would agree. Seems to me we need the most capable people irrespective of gender. Normally Ms Lucas comes up with pretty sensible stuff so this idea of hers is a bit disappointing.

Ian

I've the greatest respect for Caroline Lucas as a politician but I agree on this point she's wrong,the best people for any job are the best people irrespective of gender.

PS,that said a bunch of monkeys could have done a better job than we've had in the past ten years,the present PM included!
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Tangled Metal
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Re: All-female cabinet?

Postby Tangled Metal » 13 Aug 2019, 2:06pm

661-Pete wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:I believe the late John Prescot was working class....
"The late"? "The late"???!!! Last time I heard, John Prescott was still very much alive.

Ooops! Thought he was ill a while back and died. Glad the old character is alive.

Class is mostly meaningless but not too class warrior John Prescot. Ever see his post mp TV documentary? Very class war arguments in that even when his interview "evidence" counteracted his own arguments. In fact he had to voice over the interviews to "interpret" the facts his way. Still I always liked him despite not sharing the same politics.

Tangled Metal
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Re: All-female cabinet?

Postby Tangled Metal » 13 Aug 2019, 2:19pm

It's interesting what elites mean to people. Is it money, position of power, gender, education or something else?

My view on education through the Russell group universities is that it doesn't make you an elite. It's what you do with it or that comes about because of it and other personal qualities that get you up the greasy pole into power.

So is that idea wrong because of skin colour or gender exclusivity? You can be prejudiced for n gender but not skin colour? Or is it simply wrong because it's not a list of cabinet members based on pure ability and suitability for the work? Latter is my view but it sounds like missing out BAME personnel is the problem judging by ms lucas' later apologies.

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661-Pete
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Re: All-female cabinet?

Postby 661-Pete » 13 Aug 2019, 2:30pm

Tangled Metal wrote:It's interesting what elites mean to people. Is it money, position of power, gender, education or something else?
I suppose, seeing as the word is generally used nowadays as a term of opprobrium, it's anything I'm not.... :mrgreen:
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Oldjohnw
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Re: All-female cabinet?

Postby Oldjohnw » 13 Aug 2019, 2:49pm

Russell Group Universities is where he abler kids from comprehensive schools go. Hardly elite.
John

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Ben@Forest
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Re: All-female cabinet?

Postby Ben@Forest » 13 Aug 2019, 5:14pm

I'm not sure that women are the gentler sex either. I remember reading about male and female bullying; it was the opinion of the author (a female) that woman on woman bullying behaviour of excluding, ignoring, gossiping, backstabbing and spreading rumours is more darkly psychological than a lot of male bullying.

brynpoeth
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Re: All-female cabinet?

Postby brynpoeth » 13 Aug 2019, 5:20pm

Forgot to mention, the Grauniad reports that most of them are straight

Prescot Phoenix could be a token male member
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iandriver
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Re: All-female cabinet?

Postby iandriver » 13 Aug 2019, 10:33pm

Is one of the ten the last PM, May? That turned out well.
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Oldjohnw
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Re: All-female cabinet?

Postby Oldjohnw » 14 Aug 2019, 12:12am

There are plenty of things wrong with the all women cabinet proposal but having Mrs May as a member is not one of them.
John

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