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Disguised Remuneration. Any Sympathy?

Posted: 14 Aug 2019, 11:58am
by mercalia
Disguised Remuneration

The BBC managed to explain clearly what it involved -

This is where the agency employing them diverts most of their pay to an offshore trust, then the trust gives them a loan which they typically don't have to pay back - and on which tax is only payable at around 1-2%.



Any sensible and inteligent person should have realised it was atleast sailing very close to the wind and not take part?

So I dont have any sympathy for those caught out. do you?
loan charge.JPG
loan charge


Atleast Brutal Osborne was consistant in not only going after those in receipt of benefits

The Treasury has said it is too late to go after the promoters of the schemes, many of whom made large profits, or the accountants who recommended them

Why? Easy? "who has your accountant who advised you?" It seems to me they want to go after the small fish not the bigs ones? Put in prison a few accountants and advisers, yeh!

Re: Disguised Remuneration. Any Sympathy?

Posted: 14 Aug 2019, 12:01pm
by pwa
No. If it ain't available to the folk cleaning the office it shouldn't be available to those at the top.

Re: Disguised Remuneration. Any Sympathy?

Posted: 14 Aug 2019, 12:10pm
by pete75
pwa wrote:No. If it ain't available to the folk cleaning the office it shouldn't be available to those at the top.


That is not how the UK works. Never has and never will.

Re: Disguised Remuneration. Any Sympathy?

Posted: 14 Aug 2019, 12:15pm
by reohn2
pete75 wrote:
pwa wrote:No. If it ain't available to the folk cleaning the office it shouldn't be available to those at the top.


That is not how the UK works. Never has and never will.

+1,though I'd like to think there can be some justice....

Re: Disguised Remuneration. Any Sympathy?

Posted: 14 Aug 2019, 12:27pm
by Carlton green
I have little to no sympathy for those that deliberately and actively evade paying taxes, and particularly so large companies. Perhaps I’m incorrect but I believe that the likes of Amazon, ebay, and Facebook do not pay ‘correct’ taxes on U.K. earned income, IMHO those big hitters cost the public purse far more than the folk mentioned in the OP.

From what I remember of the OP and BBC investigation folk at all levels of society were involved or drawn into the scheme. At a time of mass unemployment I do have some sympathy for some of the poorer people who were told that they had the choice to either accept payment by the loan method or find work elsewhere. Yes, they should have known better but desperate times require desperate measures; theft is theft but I’d find it hard to judge someone who commits seemingly victimless theft to put food on their table and a roof over his or her family’s head.

IIRC HMRC did have some knowledge that the scheme was being used and at the time were slow to act. Few things in life are clearly and completely wrong or right; history, society and situation colours all things.

Re: Disguised Remuneration. Any Sympathy?

Posted: 14 Aug 2019, 1:17pm
by pwa
Already wealthy people ducking and diving to avoid putting money into hospitals and schools is a sickening spectacle. I don't care how legal it is. It is legal to be selfish, I know that. Can it be rectified? I don't know, maybe not. But I don't like it and I have no respect for those involved in it. And the sight of those same individuals donning a red nose and dancing with Pudsey is just a sick joke.

Re: Disguised Remuneration. Any Sympathy?

Posted: 14 Aug 2019, 9:38pm
by 100%JR
We're taxed to the hilt on everything.If someone can get away with paying less tax then good luck to them.I know I would if I could.

Re: Disguised Remuneration. Any Sympathy?

Posted: 14 Aug 2019, 9:54pm
by Syd
100%JR wrote:We're taxed to the hilt on everything.If someone can get away with paying less tax then good luck to them.I know I would if I could.

I worked for myself for a number of years in the late 90’s alongside a full time job. I know that for that five year period, I did not have to touch my salary, getting by on the income from self employment. Despite that, according to my accountant, I was running at a loss and therefore wasn’t liable for any additional tax or NI.

Do I feel guilty about it? Do I heck. I’ve never been unemployed and am most definitely a giver, not a taker, in the tax system.

Re: Disguised Remuneration. Any Sympathy?

Posted: 14 Aug 2019, 11:04pm
by Oldjohnw
How do we pay for roads, police, military, prisons, schools, healthcare, pensions?

Re: Disguised Remuneration. Any Sympathy?

Posted: 14 Aug 2019, 11:59pm
by PH
100%JR wrote:We're taxed to the hilt on everything.If someone can get away with paying less tax then good luck to them.I know I would if I could.

Who is the "we"?
The UK isn't as highly taxed as many other OECD countries. The argument that you don't like paying taxes so you're glad others are evading them makes no sense, you're effectively subsidising them.

Disguised Remuneration. Any Sympathy?

Posted: 15 Aug 2019, 6:34am
by Syd
PH wrote:Who is the "we"?
The UK isn't as highly taxed as many other OECD countries. The argument that you don't like paying taxes so you're glad others are avoiding them makes no sense, you're effectively subsidising them.

FTFY.

Disguised renumeration is described as a tax avoidance scheme (legal though, to many, morally questionable) rather than a tax evasion one (illegal).

Re: Disguised Remuneration. Any Sympathy?

Posted: 15 Aug 2019, 8:29am
by mercalia
Syd wrote:
PH wrote:Who is the "we"?
The UK isn't as highly taxed as many other OECD countries. The argument that you don't like paying taxes so you're glad others are avoiding them makes no sense, you're effectively subsidising them.

FTFY.

Disguised renumeration is described as a tax avoidance scheme (legal though, to many, morally questionable) rather than a tax evasion one (illegal).


except it dont work as the tax man is after the users of it

Re: Disguised Remuneration. Any Sympathy?

Posted: 15 Aug 2019, 8:44am
by Bonefishblues
mercalia wrote:
Syd wrote:
PH wrote:Who is the "we"?
The UK isn't as highly taxed as many other OECD countries. The argument that you don't like paying taxes so you're glad others are avoiding them makes no sense, you're effectively subsidising them.

FTFY.

Disguised renumeration is described as a tax avoidance scheme (legal though, to many, morally questionable) rather than a tax evasion one (illegal).


except it dont work as the tax man is after the users of it

HMRC will always push at the boundaries as will specialist tax advisors. Nothing unusual there.

Re: Disguised Remuneration. Any Sympathy?

Posted: 15 Aug 2019, 9:01am
by Graham
Some of these schemes were deliberately defined in the "grey area" where the tax & N.I. liability were a matter of interpretation - in extremis, to be determined by decisions by a court.

There is a large element of trust in the payments of taxes. In the past, most people would pay their due amounts either because they had no other choice PAYE or in fear of a Tax Investigation.

As time past, we saw the rich & powerful getting away with tax avoidance & tax-dodging and the possibilities started to appear for the ordinary folk.

Some ordinary folk appear to have taken the risk.

I have no sympathy for those who knew full well what they were doing and the associated risks.
Some sympathy for those less aware who may have been manipulated into the danger zone.

The usual problems are how to distinguish between them ( = impossible ) and even if that could be done, in what way should they be treated differently ?

Re: Disguised Remuneration. Any Sympathy?

Posted: 15 Aug 2019, 9:07am
by pete75
Syd wrote:
100%JR wrote:We're taxed to the hilt on everything.If someone can get away with paying less tax then good luck to them.I know I would if I could.

I worked for myself for a number of years in the late 90’s alongside a full time job. I know that for that five year period, I did not have to touch my salary, getting by on the income from self employment. Despite that, according to my accountant, I was running at a loss and therefore wasn’t liable for any additional tax or NI.

Do I feel guilty about it? Do I heck. I’ve never been unemployed and am most definitely a giver, not a taker, in the tax system.


Sounds like tax evasion.You were lucky not to be caught as clearly you weren't running at a loss.