Vaping - links with pulmonary disease!

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Tangled Metal
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Vaping - links with pulmonary disease!

Postby Tangled Metal » 19 Aug 2019, 3:16pm

I don't know if you remember in the early days when the nhs started to promote vaping as a less harmful and easier way to stop smoking or less harmful alternative? There was a story where a widow claimed her husband died because of vaping. His doctors gave a very measured statement that basically said there were concerns over the potential links to vaping but nothing conclusive. Basically sounding like they were sure but too scared of lawsuits to say it without irrefutable evidence.

Anyway, at the time I thought it was obviously a risk and needed treating like a drug before licensing if proven safe. Especially in light of the tobacco industry's defence of tobacco over the years.

Now the truth is beginning to come home to roost. Do you think any chemical introduced to your body for entertainment or addiction should be treated like a medical drug in future. Do you think it's time for tobacco level of control and restriction for vaping products? No vaping in public? No advertising near schools? Plain packaging and hidden behind plain cupboard doors? Taxed prohibitively and illegal to sell over tie internet in larger volumes? No longer promoted as a safe means to quit smoking? And so on and on.

What is your opinion on this?

kwackers
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Re: Vaping - links with pulmonary disease!

Postby kwackers » 19 Aug 2019, 3:42pm

The only thing I'm bothered by are the 'fruity' vapours. Smacks of alcopops (remember them?)
I see a lot of kids still in their uniforms vaping away and I do wonder if the two are connected.

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Paulatic
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Re: Vaping - links with pulmonary disease!

Postby Paulatic » 19 Aug 2019, 3:48pm

Just looking at the people who seem to linger around vaping shops/ market stalls suggests to me there must be something dodgy with this stuff.
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Vaping - links with pulmonary disease!

Postby Tangled Metal » 19 Aug 2019, 4:02pm

Check out the reports from America. Pulmonary disease has been linked to vaping and additional cases are being investigated for a link. That's across many us states. Their public health boards are getting involved in the investigations and doctors are being asked to collect samples of vaping liquids with every case of pulmonary disease coming in where vaping is involved. They want to find out what these cases are actually vaping.

Yet in the UK you can vape in public. There's no restrictions to prevent passive vaping (if there is a thing)?

I think we're going to get lawsuits over this sooner or later. It's not just about underage vaping. It's about promotion, lack of sufficient restrictions and research into the actual risks. Although I agree that the various b flavoured products does seem to be aimed at getting a wider market than tobacco products. Kids and non smokers.

djnotts
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Re: Vaping - links with pulmonary disease!

Postby djnotts » 19 Aug 2019, 5:17pm

"Pulmonary disease has been linked to vaping..." well, yes, it would be. I vape. I will almost certainly die of COPD or related. But then I had near extreme COPD before I started vaping, quitting an over 50 years of high cigarette habit. Vaping (as an alternative to fags) has demonstrably (according to my annual lung capacity etc examination) lengthened my life expectancy, my "lung age" not increasing in real time, but I will still die of COPD. Linked to vaping? So far successfully confined cancer may of course get me first! If most vapers took it up as an alternative to smoking then inevitably a "link" to their cause of death will be identified.

I am NOT saying that vaping is not dangerous, rather that this sounds logically flawed.

philvantwo
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Re: Vaping - links with pulmonary disease!

Postby philvantwo » 19 Aug 2019, 5:58pm

Vaping has increased your life expectancy??
You're coating your lungs with oil.
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djnotts
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Re: Vaping - links with pulmonary disease!

Postby djnotts » 19 Aug 2019, 7:13pm

It has compared with fags was my point. When I die, to judge vaping the cause is sloppy logic. The cause will be, predominantly, tobacco. Not the intervening vaping (altho', as I said, it may be contributory - but not on this evidence).

Tangled Metal
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Re: Vaping - links with pulmonary disease!

Postby Tangled Metal » 19 Aug 2019, 11:33pm

I guess with the advent of vaping people got into it who have never smoked.

I believe it's unlikely public health bodies and doctors will state a direct link in a litigious country like USA without god evidence / science backing it up. Perhaps those with the link aren't like dj Notts and never smoked tobacco. Don't know the details only read a few WP and CNN reports about it.

Still really early days in this story but there's certainly a degree of similarity with tobacco industry. Tobacco companies got into vaping late on, often using their size to buy out early players in vaping sector. The view was out would fill in the reduction in profits due to drop in smoking.

There's an element of medics supporting vaping under a health argument. Vaping is safer than tobacco smoking right? But vaping is starting to be accepted as having its own health risks. Smoking was once sold as being healthy. Vaping was sold as being safe. It's turned out it's probably got health risks.

Early days but it'll be worth watching. In the meantime should public vaping not be seen as antisocial as smoking in public?

We had a work colleague who caused issues by vaping at work. He argued that there was no law banning vaping at work. He was given the choice to vape outside during breaks or lose his job. Also helped by work colleagues giving him grief. Approbation of colleagues / peer group can be effective at times.

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661-Pete
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Re: Vaping - links with pulmonary disease!

Postby 661-Pete » 20 Aug 2019, 5:02pm

I don't think anyone will dispute that - harmful as it is - it's less harmful than tobacco smoking. Nevertheless, for any non-smoker or child to take up the habit - emphatically a no-no.

Available only on prescription, to 'registered' smokers? How feasible would that be?
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djnotts
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Re: Vaping - links with pulmonary disease!

Postby djnotts » 20 Aug 2019, 5:10pm

"Nevertheless, for any non-smoker or child to take up the habit - emphatically a no-no."

True but holds for so many things....just substitute "drinker" or gambler" for smoker. Where would that sort of control lead? Probably a majority would add "road cyclist".

roubaixtuesday
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Re: Vaping - links with pulmonary disease!

Postby roubaixtuesday » 20 Aug 2019, 6:27pm

Very few never- smokers use ecigs. Seems to be a non- issue.

Data here:

https://ash.org.uk/download/use-of-e-ci ... tain-2017/

mercalia
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Re: Vaping - links with pulmonary disease!

Postby mercalia » 20 Aug 2019, 6:32pm

better than the "real thing" though?

brynpoeth
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Re: Vaping - links with pulmonary disease!

Postby brynpoeth » 20 Aug 2019, 6:51pm

661-Pete wrote:I don't think anyone will dispute that - harmful as it is - it's less harmful than tobacco smoking. Nevertheless, for any non-smoker or child to take up the habit - emphatically a no-no.

Available only on prescription, to 'registered' smokers? How feasible would that be?

I will dispute that :wink:, 'fact' (!?) is no-one knows, just like with tobacco, in a few decades one may know

My expert amateur opinion is that vaping too is very harmful
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Mike Sales
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Re: Vaping - links with pulmonary disease!

Postby Mike Sales » 20 Aug 2019, 7:09pm

The British Heart Federation has expressed an opinion on vaping.

More people may be using them, but e-cigarettes are not harm-free. A study published in Environmental Science & Technology in July 2016 identified harmful emissions in the vapour, including possible carcinogens and irritants, though at a much lower level than in conventional cigarettes. The BHF would not advise non-smokers to start smoking e-cigarettes. Public Health England (PHE) estimates they are 95 per cent less harmful than regular cigarettes.


Dr Mike Knapton, Associate Medical Director at the BHF, said: “We would not advise non-smokers to take up e-cigarettes, but they can be a useful tool for harm reduction and to stop smoking.”


Recent independent studies from PHE show that most of the chemicals causing smoking related disease are absent in e-cigarettes, and chemicals that are present pose little danger.
Martin said: “For the main carcinogen in tobacco smoke, levels in e-cigarette users were close to that of non-smokers.”


And more...


https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/news/e-cigarettes

Tangled Metal
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Re: Vaping - links with pulmonary disease!

Postby Tangled Metal » 20 Aug 2019, 7:11pm

As I said it is early days in proving this link conclusively to one particular thing. At the moment there is a proven link to vaping in a number of cases across several states. Other cases are also being investigated. The other issue is the link to vaping hasn't fixed what in the vaping is causing it. The reason is they haven't had samples of what those saturn proven links have vaped in enough cases yet.

The link is a fact just not what is the chemical that's causing the disease. In some ways it's like tobacco but the difference is that tobacco is basically similar in terms of what chemicals it introduces to your body. Vaping products are more varied.

I always thought that the history of tobacco should have been thought about when vaping first got developed for pleasure use. They should have treated every product produced and sold for vaping as a drug. The manufacturer only being allowed to produce and sell once all clinical trials prove it is safe. Instead we've got a potential tobacco situation.