Unreasonable expectations,and outright lies.

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Oldjohnw
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Re: Unreasonable expectations,and outright lies.

Postby Oldjohnw » 25 Aug 2019, 7:06pm

Caveat emptor

Unless there is misrepresentation.
Last edited by Oldjohnw on 26 Aug 2019, 6:33am, edited 1 time in total.
John

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Unreasonable expectations,and outright lies.

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 25 Aug 2019, 11:05pm

Hi,
Bought something off ebay.
Unless there has been a recent breakthrough in lithium battery technology where they can be made to be half competitors weight / I have travelled through time :)
Then it was not as described.
I gave up trying to return it, after they said that they could not send a return label and return address was china not the UK where it was posted!
Then I saw a message from ebay asking if I needed help?
I explained my plight and within a hour or so I had a full refund, no need to send it back.
The comments from the seller were a bit stupid, when I said item not heavy enough they replied we can send you one with a rock in it so it will be heavier..................
If You Don't Try You Don't Do.....Don't Do You Don't Get...I'm Still Trying....Well Very..
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horizon
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Re: Unreasonable expectations,and outright lies.

Postby horizon » 26 Aug 2019, 1:28am

I've bought loads of items off this forum over the years. I point them all out to Mrs H when we go camping (or more likely when I set off). She normally makes an excuse and goes off and makes the tea, which is win-win really. I just think it's better to buy second-hand, not just to save money but it saves on a bit of pollution in China. The items (some from ebay) include Trangias, bikes, sleeping bags, mats, tents, wheels, handlebars, mirrors, chainsets, saddles, pedals, lights, clothing, brakes, panniers, maps, cycling shoes: nearly everything I need in fact. It has all been used (a lot) and overall I have been 100% happy with my purchases. I prefer buying from the forum rather than ebay because the price is fixed and you can just buy it instead of messing about with a last minute bid. And I much prefer buying from a real forum member than an anonymous internet shop (Spa excepted and I don't have an LBS). It really is delightful.

The way I get to 100% satisfaction buying second hand (especially on ebay, I hardly need to do it on here) is to amortise the purchase over all the other things I have bought second hand. That is, one bad item is easily made up for by several good ones. That way you never feel ripped off and can let it go. However, in the case of the OP I have no doubt that it would be excellent anyway. :D

I think I would find selling much more difficult. My advice to the OP would also be to refund the money no quibbles, it simply isn't worth the hassle. Rick H's advice was good: be very detailed and clear in the description but still expect complaints.
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francovendee
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Re: Unreasonable expectations,and outright lies.

Postby francovendee » 26 Aug 2019, 9:55am

I think this is a difficult one, I would feel disappointed if the item turned up with small tears if they hadn't been pointed out and photo shown. I'd very likely still buy as the saving over new was a lot. I bought a pair of used panniers described as in new condition. They weren't, one strap was quite damaged. In view of the fact they were a good price I never said anything. I've still got them and the strap is no worse.

reohn2
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Re: Unreasonable expectations,and outright lies.

Postby reohn2 » 26 Aug 2019, 3:17pm

francovendee wrote:I think this is a difficult one, I would feel disappointed if the item turned up with small tears if they hadn't been pointed out and photo shown. I'd very likely still buy as the saving over new was a lot. I bought a pair of used panniers described as in new condition. They weren't, one strap was quite damaged. In view of the fact they were a good price I never said anything. I've still got them and the strap is no worse.

I agree that if something is described in 'as new condition' or Mint Condition or A+ or A1 condition,I'd expect the item to be as new,and price would be 50% to 70% of price paid new.

A step down in condition from that would be Very Good Condition or VGC or B condition,which I'd expect only very slight signs of wear,priced at 30% to 50% of new

Next step down is Good Condition or GC,which means used with definite signs of regular and prolonged use with minor flaws but perfectly serviceable and smart looking,priced at between 20% to 40% of new

After that would be Fair Condition or FC,which IMO is pretty beat up,possibly with visible repairs or fading,etc but serviceable with obvious flaws,price can be anything below 20%

Below that is 'for spares only' or in need of repair or in need of TLC, give away prices?

These 'standards' seem fair and honest to me but don't include 'collector's' items where the sky's the limit from what I've seen.
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Cugel
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Re: Unreasonable expectations,and outright lies.

Postby Cugel » 26 Aug 2019, 4:32pm

reohn2 wrote:
francovendee wrote:I think this is a difficult one, I would feel disappointed if the item turned up with small tears if they hadn't been pointed out and photo shown. I'd very likely still buy as the saving over new was a lot. I bought a pair of used panniers described as in new condition. They weren't, one strap was quite damaged. In view of the fact they were a good price I never said anything. I've still got them and the strap is no worse.

I agree that if something is described in 'as new condition' or Mint Condition or A+ or A1 condition,I'd expect the item to be as new,and price would be 50% to 70% of price paid new.

A step down in condition from that would be Very Good Condition or VGC or B condition,which I'd expect only very slight signs of wear,priced at 30% to 50% of new

Next step down is Good Condition or GC,which means used with definite signs of regular and prolonged use with minor flaws but perfectly serviceable and smart looking,priced at between 20% to 40% of new

After that would be Fair Condition or FC,which IMO is pretty beat up,possibly with visible repairs or fading,etc but serviceable with obvious flaws,price can be anything below 20%

Below that is 'for spares only' or in need of repair or in need of TLC, give away prices?

These 'standards' seem fair and honest to me but don't include 'collector's' items where the sky's the limit from what I've seen.


Those categorisations are subjective, even if quite a few would agree with them. There is no definitive standard for such macro descriptions as "good" or "fair".

This being so, it's best to offer a description that's explicit, unambiguous, detailed and otherwise as accurate and complete as you can make it. This is easy in the ebay context as you can use both words and photos.

Me and t'ladywife have sold hundreds of items on ebay as part of our effort to avoid ever throwing anything away. We are still 100 percenters, as we go to great lengths to offer absolutely detailed descriptions of anything we sell, including photos of the teeniest blemish.

If there is any dispute, we offer to take the item back and to refund the postage. This has happened but twice - both times because I made an inaccurate description of a measurement. No one will want the bother of sending an item back as some sort of try-to-cheat-you attempt. They gain nothing by doing so, if you take an item back and refund their postage costs. You lose the postage costs but they don't gain them.

In short, be utterly explicit and tediously long-winded in your descriptions. Why assume they can mind read what you mean by "good condition"?

Cugel

reohn2
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Re: Unreasonable expectations,and outright lies.

Postby reohn2 » 26 Aug 2019, 4:52pm

Cugel
I agree there's an element of subjectivity in the what I described in that post, it's a general guide,but IMO a fair one.
I've conceded that it may have been better if I'd mentioned the two (small) tears to the lining,but given the asking price and they being of no detriment to the item's performance in any way,IMO people should be a little more realistic in understanding what a secondhand item described as 'Good Condition' actually means.It doesn't mean 'As New' or 'Very Good Condition',it means what it says and there's boundmto be signsmof wear and (dare I say it) tear.
As for the outright lies about the straps,and that is exactly what what they were,outright lies.I have NO toleration for liars,especially ones who are getting what I considered bargain!

As for Ebay I too have 100% positive feed back on over 400 transactions with no problems or disputes.
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Oldjohnw
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Re: Unreasonable expectations,and outright lies.

Postby Oldjohnw » 26 Aug 2019, 5:39pm

The words to avoid are, surely, 'perfect' or 'as new'. These are absolute terms. Excellent, outstanding, very good etc are subjective.
John

Cycling and recycling

reohn2
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Re: Unreasonable expectations,and outright lies.

Postby reohn2 » 26 Aug 2019, 6:07pm

Oldjohnw wrote:The words to avoid are, surely, 'perfect' or 'as new'. These are absolute terms. Excellent, outstanding, very good etc are subjective.

Perfect I agree.
As new I'd disagee,if something is as it was when bought new with no signs of wear then it's 'as new'.A classic example is buying something only to find it wasn't quite the right size or colour,etc,then advertising it for sale 'as new' I have a size small Blackburn framebag that I made a mistake buying and left it too long to return it.It's advertised 'as new' because that's what it is.
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But the thread isn't only about that,it's about integrity(emphasised in the OP),some people haven't any,and some have missed the point
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Oldjohnw
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Re: Unreasonable expectations,and outright lies.

Postby Oldjohnw » 26 Aug 2019, 6:51pm

Fair point and I think there are items which are indeed as new.

But second hand stuff, so long as not obviously and deliberately misrepresented, are the responsibility of the buyer.
John

Cycling and recycling

reohn2
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Re: Unreasonable expectations,and outright lies.

Postby reohn2 » 26 Aug 2019, 7:31pm

Oldjohnw wrote:..........But second hand stuff, so long as not obviously and deliberately misrepresented, are the responsibility of the buyer.

I think buyer and seller both have responsibilities,in that they both need to be honest,or at least should be in a community such as the forum is.
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mercalia
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Re: Unreasonable expectations,and outright lies.

Postby mercalia » 27 Aug 2019, 5:14pm

well what do people here make of this mains cable for hifi?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUDIO-ACOUST ... SwMSZbaeAf


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