How many makes a successful protest?

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Psamathe
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Re: How many makes a successful protest?

Postby Psamathe » 1 Sep 2019, 10:37am

Graham wrote:.....
I don't see much effort for managing expectations and changes, from our political system that should be primarily about managing change.....

You are right and it's not something I'd noticed/registered but you raise a good point. Our politicians are still talking about the Land of Milk and Honey after we Hard-Brexit, how the World will be our oyster, trade deals with the US negotiated in no time atall.

The prospects for a US trade deal still amaze me because our average tariff with US trade is currently 3%. So a free trade deal will save very little money but will undoubtedly mean us getting hormone fed beef, chlorine washed chicken, US mega-corps running the NHS, etc. and all for 3% (plus how much harder that would make a trade deal with the EU). Plus the totally unrealistic timescales the politicians are talking about.

Ian

softlips
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Re: How many makes a successful protest?

Postby softlips » 1 Sep 2019, 10:44am

There didn’t seem to be that many in London. The BBC said London was brought to a standstill but the areas they showed had no where near the numbers they claimed. We walked through four times during the day. There were slightly more than the daily number outside Parliament and also the end of Downing Street.

It reminded me of when my colleague and I were sat outside a pub in Westminster. He was watching supposedly a live broadcast showing the number of protesters. The pub was indeed hidden behind throngs of people - strange we were sat outside watching the world go by and unable to see those thousands of people :?

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: How many makes a successful protest?

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 1 Sep 2019, 10:48am

Hi,
reohn2 wrote:Compared with the counter demonstrations it's pretty impressive at such short notice.
Another thing worth consideration is the petition over a million signitures in 48 hours,whilst it's counter petition can be counted in the hundreds.

Why bother countering something you have no interest in / will never catch on / won't change anything.
To protest is simply showing / voicing ones own opinion, some might also agree with you.

If I held a different opinion It would be foolish to turn up even if I was not out numbered in certain circumstances.
Even verbal protest are avoided by most.

If my firm was on strike and I was not part of the union and I waked through the picket (like I did) what would you do / say to me if you were in the union?

Subject heading is not specific just a question.
A protest could simply be verbal, not necessarily boots on the ground.

Fair taxes or things like speed cameras are trashed because of a small minority's of law breakers are feared by authorities, hardly democratic.

An individual can protest by going to a person/organisation for help and support / go slow on a job / even copy bad practice which is not pulled up.

Ah.......I see the heading in the post should of ended with "Demonstration"?
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brynpoeth
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Re: How many makes a successful protest?

Postby brynpoeth » 1 Sep 2019, 10:49am

Truth is the first casualty

One often reads of demos, the cops say soandso many thousands attended
The organisers typically claim the figure was much higher

After, no-one knows
..
For demos to succeed, a lot of luck is needed, as in Leipzig, +1989!

Whatabout Hong Kong? :?
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Psamathe
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Re: How many makes a successful protest?

Postby Psamathe » 1 Sep 2019, 10:57am

softlips wrote:There didn’t seem to be that many in London. The BBC said London was brought to a standstill but the areas they showed had no where near the numbers they claimed. We walked through four times during the day. There were slightly more than the daily number outside Parliament and also the end of Downing Street.

It reminded me of when my colleague and I were sat outside a pub in Westminster. He was watching supposedly a live broadcast showing the number of protesters. The pub was indeed hidden behind throngs of people - strange we were sat outside watching the world go by and unable to see those thousands of people :?

My personal opinions about protests is that they may or may not provide an indication and they can on occasions be more about helping people cope with something than for effecting change. These days everybody knows that politicians ignore public opinion expressed e.g. through petitions, through protest, etc. (look at the EU 6m petition dismissed with a one-liner, look at the Iraq war protests or waste some time writing to your MP). Timing can be important. The current protests did not have much advance notice, kids being got ready to go back to school and from watching TV we seem to be into the shopping build-up forChristmas (I had to go through Norwich yesterday (Sat) and all the digital carpark spaces available signs said "full" which is very rare these days).

In part if something angers or upsets you, then for some going to a protest can make you feel you are doing something about it. Of course people know their expression will be ignored by the politicians but at least you can feel you'd done something.

Also, protests do attract reporters and airtime/column inches and that can help make others aware and to maintain some momentum. there might also be longer term effects e.g. some of those sitting at home watching the news might remember it a bit when deciding who most deserves their vote next election (particularly if that election is not too far away). Probably not enough to have a massive impact but might help in a few marginals?

Ian

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horizon
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Re: How many makes a successful protest?

Postby horizon » 1 Sep 2019, 11:05am

Psamathe wrote:I caught a bit of a R4 program (after the 9:00am news this (Sun 1/Sept) morning) with Prof. Curtis talking about the prorogation and it was interesting (particularly given his neutrality on the subject).

Ian


I believe it was Peter Hennessy but definitely worth a listen.
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Psamathe
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Re: How many makes a successful protest?

Postby Psamathe » 1 Sep 2019, 11:13am

horizon wrote:
Psamathe wrote:I caught a bit of a R4 program (after the 9:00am news this (Sun 1/Sept) morning) with Prof. Curtis talking about the prorogation and it was interesting (particularly given his neutrality on the subject).

Ian

I believe it was Peter Hennessy but definitely worth a listen.

I'd assumed Curtis because they referred to him as a University lecturer. I'm sure you are right as I was guessing purely on the "Prof." and that Curtis seems to be appearing everywhere on broadcast media at the moment. Apologies for my error.

Ian

Ben@Forest
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Re: How many makes a successful protest?

Postby Ben@Forest » 1 Sep 2019, 11:24am

softlips wrote:It reminded me of when my colleague and I were sat outside a pub in Westminster. He was watching supposedly a live broadcast showing the number of protesters. The pub was indeed hidden behind throngs of people - strange we were sat outside watching the world go by and unable to see those thousands of people :?


Yes and the camera often lies. I remember seeing some film footage of anti-American demonstrations in Pakistan. The crowd looked big and angry and was of course burning flags.

But then the camera panned around 360 degrees. The crowd was relatively small and people were passing by about their daily business on the other side of the street, showing no interest. Not only that but l bet the demonstrators who were there ramped up their chanting and started lighting matches only when the TV crew turned up.

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horizon
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Re: How many makes a successful protest?

Postby horizon » 1 Sep 2019, 11:31am

I think there's a whole school of thought about how to make demonstrations and protests media-impressive. Personally I think it's a hostage to fortune to depend on numbers turning out.
I have two doctors, my left leg and my right leg. (G. M. Trevelyan)
PS I always wondered why the YHA HQ was called Trevelyan House. :)

reohn2
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Re: How many makes a successful protest?

Postby reohn2 » 1 Sep 2019, 1:21pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
reohn2 wrote:Compared with the counter demonstrations it's pretty impressive at such short notice.
Another thing worth consideration is the petition over a million signitures in 48 hours,whilst it's counter petition can be counted in the hundreds.

Why bother countering something you have no interest in / will never catch on / won't change anything.
To protest is simply showing / voicing ones own opinion, some might also agree with you.

People protest because they feel something is wrong or unjust and that will affect them.

If I held a different opinion It would be foolish to turn up even if I was not out numbered in certain circumstances

It depends on the protest.

Even verbal protest are avoided by most

That's their prerogative,people protest in many different ways,some not always overt.

If my firm was on strike and I was not part of the union and I waked through the picket (like I did) what would you do / say to me if you were in the union?

What has that got to do with anything being discussed on this thread?




Fair taxes or things like speed cameras are trashed because of a small minority's of law breakers are feared by authorities, hardly democratic

And enough numbers of people voted to leave the EU and sway the majority because of their unfounded prejudices,including xenaphobia and or their belief the NHS would be £350 million a week better off,such is the smallmindedness of some,others voted out on 'gut feeling' without examining or considering the consequences or issues the UK would face outside the EU.
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: How many makes a successful protest?

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 1 Sep 2019, 6:35pm

Hi,
reohn2 wrote:And enough numbers of people voted to leave the EU and sway the majority because of their unfounded prejudices,including xenaphobia and or their belief the NHS would be £350 million a week better off, such is the smallmindedness of some,others voted out on 'gut feeling' without examining or considering the consequences or issues the UK would face outside the EU

No facts just prejudice of those who voted leave, well one posters opinion.
There you go again calling the other side words to the effect of Bad Citizens :roll:
60 Days and counting.
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reohn2
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Re: How many makes a successful protest?

Postby reohn2 » 1 Sep 2019, 6:49pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
reohn2 wrote:And enough numbers of people voted to leave the EU and sway the majority because of their unfounded prejudices,including xenaphobia and or their belief the NHS would be £350 million a week better off, such is the smallmindedness of some,others voted out on 'gut feeling' without examining or considering the consequences or issues the UK would face outside the EU

No facts just prejudice of those who voted leave, well one posters opinion.
There you go again calling the other side words to the effect of Bad Citizens :roll:
60 Days and counting.

You have given no plausable reason for your descision for voting out.
At least those who voted for brexit on lies told to them do,even if it was based on their naivety and total lack of examination of the facts at least had a reason.

Yes 60 days and counting to what exactly?
Do you have any idea what lies beyond that date,or are you still happy your gut feeling is better than anything the UK has presently within the EU.
I'd like to know what you think,as currently it looks like one almighty sh*t storm to me.
Perhaps you know something the rest of us don't!
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pete75
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Re: How many makes a successful protest?

Postby pete75 » 1 Sep 2019, 8:35pm

It's not numbers that makes a successful protest but whether or not the protest achieves it's aims.