Handwriting

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.
User avatar
Mick F
Spambuster
Posts: 46495
Joined: 7 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Tamar Valley, Cornwall

Re: Handwriting

Postby Mick F » 7 Sep 2019, 7:10pm

:lol:
That's ok!

As I've said so many times on here with respect to cadence, speed, saddles, bike choices, route choices etc etc etc ..........
We are all different.
Mick F. Cornwall

Tangled Metal
Posts: 5704
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Handwriting

Postby Tangled Metal » 7 Sep 2019, 10:35pm

I wonder what makes an Americanism acceptable and accepted into the UK English language and what prevents that from happening.

Far worse than lack of a plural is the new words hitting the streets, even backwater, northern towns and small cities. There was a guy parked up but hanging out the window chatting to a guy hanging from the upstairs window of the house next to the car. The guy told the driver to "rag it bro'!"

Then "fam" is being used a lot. *Hench" is a term used for a man who clearly works out. There's many more, I've luckily forgotten many.

Anyway, back on topic I think. Just found a load of old drawing implements. Compasses off various qualities and sizes. Two are top quality from the days before CAD. I found rulers, protractor and set squares. Rulers from basic helix ones to engineering rulers with various scales. Set squares in 45 and 30/60 degrees in cheap helix plus proper engineering sets squares also from days before CAD. Even one full circle protractor.

Plus a Parker fountain pen I forgot I had minus cartridges or reservoir. Quink ink bottle too. Need to buy a reservoir I think. Which is best? Plunger type or the ones with a metal outer that has cut out sides with a soft plastic / rubber reservoir inside you squeeze to force air out and then suck up ink?

I've had both before. I think the plunger type is a two hand use the other simply a one handed squeeze. I could then buy a better ink than parkers Quink ink.

Off topic but a really good, fancy stationery shop set up about 6 years ago. A really nice shop to look in and if you had spare cash could get some very good quality fountain pens, notebooks, portfolio cases, etc. Just found out it's shut down. Real shame.

LollyKat
Posts: 2886
Joined: 28 May 2011, 11:25pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Handwriting

Postby LollyKat » 8 Sep 2019, 2:21pm

Tangled Metal wrote:Plus a Parker fountain pen I forgot I had minus cartridges or reservoir. Quink ink bottle too. Need to buy a reservoir I think. Which is best? Plunger type or the ones with a metal outer that has cut out sides with a soft plastic / rubber reservoir inside you squeeze to force air out and then suck up ink?


I had (still have, somewhere) the one with the metal outer with cut-out sides - it filled up all right but I found it difficult to keep away from the mouth of a half-empty ink bottle, so that the outer and therefore my fingers ended up smeared with ink. Personally I find the screw plunger more controllable and so prefer it, even though it doesn't hold as much ink.

Alternatively you could use cartridges and fill them yourself with a syringe. Apparently a spot of hot glue will seal one - then just peel it off when you need it.

Tangled Metal
Posts: 5704
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Handwriting

Postby Tangled Metal » 8 Sep 2019, 9:36pm

Anyone have the plunger type? I used to have one for a parker pen and another make that had a straight pull up plunger mechanism for filling the reservoir. It worked well but if you're not careful you pull the plunger up and the pen nib the other way into the ink bottle.

How does the screw plunger work? Is it a twist of the plunger to make it rise out of the reservoir, sucking ink into the reservoir?

Is ink a cheaper option than cartridges? Perhaps better stick with cartridges?

LollyKat
Posts: 2886
Joined: 28 May 2011, 11:25pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Handwriting

Postby LollyKat » 9 Sep 2019, 1:08pm

I don't have the Parker one but my Lamy Safari screw plunger is very similar - when the pen is empty or nearly so, dip the nib into the ink, then screw the plunger first clockwise to fill the empty space in the reservoir, then anticlockwise to suck up the ink. It's really easy to control - no wobble, no inky fingers, no bashing the nib.

A bottle of ink is cheaper than cartridges and you don't add so much plastic waste to the environment, though the ink bottle has a plastic lid. Cartridges may hold more and are convenient if you need to carry spares with you. They can be refilled if you don't mind going to a little trouble: http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum ... artridges/

My handwriting has got worse and worse over the years, getting to the point that I can't always read it myself. As I am secretary of a committee and need to take notes for minutes, I really need to do something about it. I've just bought Improve Your Handwriting, so now to fill my pen....
:)

Tangled Metal
Posts: 5704
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Handwriting

Postby Tangled Metal » 9 Sep 2019, 2:07pm

I've been reading a lot on bullet journals of late. I noticed a few of the Instagrammers on bullet journals do blogs and give advice on improving handwriting. One tip I read was to forget joined up writing and try writing individual letters. Apparently you soon get up to speed and it becomes a bit neater.

Anyway there's quite a few things online about improving handwriting. I might even look at a few one day.

Tangled Metal
Posts: 5704
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Handwriting

Postby Tangled Metal » 11 Sep 2019, 9:36pm

I found a good stationary shop called pen heaven. They have a good online shop but also an interesting blog on writing, pens, notebooks and what people do with them.

One interesting thing was about reducing plastic. The idea I never considered was that all our pens tend to be plastic and very disposable. Has anyone even used all the ink up in a bic before it broke, got lost or got stolen? I got to the point if no black ink showing in the bic but someone nicked it so I didn't run out of ink.

Basically we really should go to fountain pens with refillable converters or cartridges. Keep it topped up with glass bottles if ink. So buy one pen and use it fit a longer time. Even buy all metal or even wooden pens instead of plastic. Write on paper held in reusable covers.

brynpoeth
Posts: 11055
Joined: 30 Nov 2013, 11:26am

Re: Handwriting

Postby brynpoeth » 12 Sep 2019, 6:06am

What were they made of back then? One could collect birds feathers while out cycling and fashion a quill quite easily, could be a thing for Cugel the woodworker
Entertainer, juvenile, curmudgeon
Cycling-of course, but it is far better on a Gillott
We love safety cameras, we love life

Tangled Metal
Posts: 5704
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Handwriting

Postby Tangled Metal » 12 Sep 2019, 8:29am

brynpoeth wrote:What were they made of back then? One could collect birds feathers while out cycling and fashion a quill quite easily, could be a thing for Cugel the woodworker

I did that as a child. Sort if worked but not very well.

A retailer called pen heaven sells quills professionally made in Italy by craftsmen. Must be true because if a photograph of an old guy sat sat at a work bench, surrounded by tools and what looks like third hand devices and magnifying glass on adjustable arm. Funny thing is this guy also hand crafts leather goods at the same workstation since that photograph shows on the page for hand crafted, Italian leather products.

Btw anyone want a custom leather product made I know where to find a craftsman for the job. Especially if you're into Celtic or viking motifs. There's a few guys doing it and posting on a forum I visit occasionally. Off topic.

I could imagine Cugel seeing my comment about wooden pens and starting to make one out if the scrap blocks of wood from past projects. Probably appeal to his reduce waste attitude to living. I suspect in his hobby there's always scrap wood in small pieces. Use the stacked leather or wood approach used in craftsmen made knife handles to create the block then turn down once glued and drill out. I bet Cugel would come up with something that looks and feels really good. Not sure if he could make a fountain pen nib though. Probably a dip pen or to take a commercial balloon refill.

LollyKat
Posts: 2886
Joined: 28 May 2011, 11:25pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Handwriting

Postby LollyKat » 12 Sep 2019, 11:23am

Here you are:

Image

Wooden barrelled fountain pen for children, the Lamy abc. They also do ballpoints and pencils. The grips and caps are still plastic, though. You can get kits to make wooden pens - I have a ballpoint made out of scrap oak by a wood-turning friend.

I used to have a red ballpoint which was just the inner jammed into a piece of garden cane. I'd stepped on the original plastic barrel and didn't have time to go shopping for a new pen - the bamboo worked fine and was much more resistant to abuse! :lol:

The 'quill pens' in your link have metal nibs, so cheats, really. If you want to try making the real thing have a look at Martin Billingsley's, The Pens Excellencie or the Secretaries Delighte from1618.It has beautiful examples of various alphabets, but also detailed instructions on making the pen. First catch your goose!

Tangled Metal
Posts: 5704
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Handwriting

Postby Tangled Metal » 12 Sep 2019, 11:38am

Thinking if getting one of those for our son. He's going to be 7 just before xmas. His handwriting is as expected for his age but behind other kids at his level in everything else. He doesn't like writing really, so I figure a nice fountain pen might help him appreciate writing.

The only thing is he's not at the joined up writing stage at school, probably come this year. I'm thinking he might not be ready for a proper fountain pen.

Btw if not this pen then a lamy safari. In Germany that's the school pen kids learn writing with. Iirc German schools specify every kid should have lamy paint sets I read on a blog once.

I've got a safari and the grip is really perfect. The other issue i have is scratchy nibs. I don't last out looking enough for a nib to break in. If it's scratchy I'll probably drawer it and find another pen. Lamy FPs IME aren't scratchy straight from the box.

LollyKat
Posts: 2886
Joined: 28 May 2011, 11:25pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Handwriting

Postby LollyKat » 12 Sep 2019, 12:11pm

I have a Lamy safari and I love it - as you say it is very comfortable and the nib moves very smoothly.

When I was at school a long time ago, writing with ink was introduced in Primary 4 (8-year-olds). We used scratchy steel dip pens and school ink, mixed from a powder which settled into a sludge in the bottom of the inkwell... I don't think it improved our writing much but we felt very grown up. :lol:

Tangled Metal
Posts: 5704
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Handwriting

Postby Tangled Metal » 12 Sep 2019, 12:25pm

There's a theory that free flowing fountain pens help with teaching writing skills. Personally I think good, ink based pens are at good at FPs . I have a pilot pen with a fine ballpoint. It's a nice write.

Anyone know if schools still teach with FPs?

Perhaps 7 is too young. I reckon bottled ink definitely but cartridge perhaps.

In my school days the brand recommended for kids was platignum. A cheap brand and not the same as platinum brand which is really as good as lamy. Later I chose those pentel pens that wrote like a FP with a calligraphy style difference in thickness between up and sideways pen strokes. They were pretty good write and imho quick too. FPs tend to slow your writing down a bit.

User avatar
Cugel
Posts: 2493
Joined: 13 Nov 2017, 11:14am

Re: Handwriting

Postby Cugel » 12 Sep 2019, 2:11pm

Tangled Metal wrote:
brynpoeth wrote:What were they made of back then? One could collect birds feathers while out cycling and fashion a quill quite easily, could be a thing for Cugel the woodworker

I did that as a child. Sort if worked but not very well.

A retailer called pen heaven sells quills professionally made in Italy by craftsmen. Must be true because if a photograph of an old guy sat sat at a work bench, surrounded by tools and what looks like third hand devices and magnifying glass on adjustable arm. Funny thing is this guy also hand crafts leather goods at the same workstation since that photograph shows on the page for hand crafted, Italian leather products.

Btw anyone want a custom leather product made I know where to find a craftsman for the job. Especially if you're into Celtic or viking motifs. There's a few guys doing it and posting on a forum I visit occasionally. Off topic.

I could imagine Cugel seeing my comment about wooden pens and starting to make one out if the scrap blocks of wood from past projects. Probably appeal to his reduce waste attitude to living. I suspect in his hobby there's always scrap wood in small pieces. Use the stacked leather or wood approach used in craftsmen made knife handles to create the block then turn down once glued and drill out. I bet Cugel would come up with something that looks and feels really good. Not sure if he could make a fountain pen nib though. Probably a dip pen or to take a commercial balloon refill.


In various woodworking emporiums, especially those catering to the lathe lads, there are "pen kits" which are various but often contain the pre-made metal gubbins and a small blank of exotic wood for turning on a lathe to make a pen shape. I confess to curling a lip a bit at these, as the word "kit" is something of a giveway indicating that there is little craft involved other than turning a readied bit of wood into a simple barrel shape, usually to a pre-supplied pattern.

But some fellows, perhaps feeling as I do, have made the beautiful traditional pen from scratch, including all the metal bits, employing mini metalworking tools as well as the wood lathe and perhaps some wood chisels, rasps. etc.. I can admire such creations because they were created, from scratch rather than merely assembled from a kit with a token bit of easy wood turning.

I would like to have all the necessary skills to make such a pen-from-scratch but, alas, time is limited for we gimmers and there's still a lot of stained glass working to be learnt, not to mention several wooden items on a list. Then there's the cycling, the dog walking and a list of books as yet unread..... When will I get time to listen to the new guitar CDs!?

Nor must I forget the photography, currently combined with dog walking and focussing (ha) on macros of fungi. I feel another Tea Shop thread coming on.

Cugel

Tangled Metal
Posts: 5704
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Handwriting

Postby Tangled Metal » 12 Sep 2019, 3:24pm

Skills? I bet you'd find with a little reading those necessary skills will be found within you. I doubt it would take you much time to learn three metalwork skills and the woodwork skills are already there.

As to kits? Well if I was a creative like you with wood I'd buy replacement nibs from a common pen make then make the pen parts to match it. Afterall there's a few pen companies offering such an aftermarket nib. My preference is for lamy nibs.