Boring fact

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Mick F
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Re: Boring fact

Postby Mick F » 9 Sep 2019, 11:44am

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
We've all signed the paper me and my partner.
I would imagine you are bound to death?
We are ALL bound by the Official Secrets Act. Sign it, so you understand, it's not a contract.

Signing it, is just so there's an official record of your agreeing to it and you know that they know that you can be in contact with official secrets. Most people will never be in contact with an official secret of course .............. but it doesn't mean you aren't bound by it.
Mick F. Cornwall

Mike Sales
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Re: Boring fact

Postby Mike Sales » 9 Sep 2019, 11:55am

I was searching about my memory of a MoD civil servant getting into legal trouble for revealing the amount the Dept. spent on tea and biscuits. I found it was a Rumpole of the Bailey episode.

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fausto copy
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Re: Boring fact

Postby fausto copy » 9 Sep 2019, 3:15pm

After gaining free entry for years into military establishments, for some reason just before I finished work, I had to be Positively Vetted when there was a change of use of one of them.
I imagine there were a few background checks which I knew little about, but part of the "questionnaire" I had to fill out was details of my 70-year-old "step-fathers' parents (who had both died over 40 years previously).
He wasn't actually my stepfather as my widowed mother married him when I was in my twenties.
However, the information was required and as I had a good relationship with him, he divulged the innocuous details.
I can't for the life of me see how that would have affected my suitability but there you go.

I got "passed" but some time later I was asked by the RAF (sshh) to do some work for them but when they checked my details, BT said I wasn't on their approved list. I was delighted to walk away from what would have been a difficult job and never returned :D

The strangest one though, was many years ago when there were a lot of checks due to IRA activity.
We used to have to enter a Royal Naval Armaments Depot (sshh) to change air cylinders to pressurise the junction cables (sshh) and one day I went to the control gate and there were new personnel on duty. They asked me why I required entry and once told, they let me through.
I should add that my colleague, who held an Irish passport, was in the passenger seat and they ignored him totally. I suppose we could have been carrying some explosive devices :shock: :shock: :shock:

Hope I haven't divulged any secrets there and am not in danger of investigation from a Guardian reporter. :?

merseymouth
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Re: Boring fact

Postby merseymouth » 9 Sep 2019, 4:30pm

Hi folk, I had to sign the Official Secrets Act when I delivered fags & sweets to Nuclear Establishments? Maybe it was to prevent me from divulging who had a sweet tooth or might pop their clogs from too many Woodbines? Daft innit!
But worse things happened to me then? Whilst delivering the same to Stanlow Refinery they would frisk me & the van lad for cigarette lighters & matches, fair enough. But they nevr once checked the back of the van which often had 10 cases of Pilot & Swan Vestas :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Couldn't invent such stupidity. TTFN MM

axel_knutt
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Re: Boring fact

Postby axel_knutt » 9 Sep 2019, 4:45pm

Mike Sales wrote:I was searching about my memory of a MoD civil servant getting into legal trouble for revealing the amount the Dept. spent on tea and biscuits. I found it was a Rumpole of the Bailey episode.

This is the Parliamentary Commissioners Act as originally passed in 1967. It appears your own medical records became subject to the OSA if they'd been used as evidence in a complaint to the Health Ombudsman:
OSA.JPG


Section 11 paragraph 1 was repealed in 1989, but the PHSO still prohibit complainants from revealing information, just not under the OSA.
NIPSO seem to play by different rules, here they are threatening Carol McCullough with prosecution under the OSA after she disclosed details of the mistakes made by the Ombudsman's medical advisor:
Carol McCullough Official Secrets #2.jpg
“I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't believe you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche

Tangled Metal
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Re: Boring fact

Postby Tangled Metal » 10 Sep 2019, 8:28am

I worked over summer for British Aerospace when 16. I signed papers without knowing what they were. Well it was a really good job and experience so I wasn't really worried what I signed to get the job. Just a kid and all that.

If one was related to the official secrets act would it still supply over 30 years later and now an adult? Not that i had access to secrets of course.

Also, how could you find out if your had signed it and it was still in effect?

Oldjohnw
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Re: Boring fact

Postby Oldjohnw » 10 Sep 2019, 8:58am

I signed the OSA about 50 years then again 20 years ago after being out of the CS for a few years.

I then received positive vetting and anti terror and high security clearance which involved someone going through my bank accounts, talking to my neighbours and some relatives, and checking out my entire work and education history.

I also signed that I knew of nothing or would do nothing which might embarrass HMG or ministers. I remarked that the latter didn't need any help from me.

Interesting since my role often involved embarrassing ministers.
John

Cycling and recycling

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Audax67
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Re: Boring fact

Postby Audax67 » 10 Sep 2019, 9:49am

Anyone here signed Section 3? ;)
Have we got time for another cuppa?

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Mick F
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Re: Boring fact

Postby Mick F » 10 Sep 2019, 10:12am

Gordon only knows what I signed over the years. :lol:

I was cleared for Secret Atomic when we were carrying the "weapon" on the ships. I was part of the maintenance team.
600lb nuclear depth charge. We had the Westland Wasp and later the Westland Lynx helicopters which were nuclear capable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WE.177
Mick F. Cornwall

Mike Sales
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Re: Boring fact

Postby Mike Sales » 10 Sep 2019, 10:17am

Mick F wrote:Gordon only knows what I signed over the years. :lol:

I was cleared for Secret Atomic when we were carrying the "weapon" on the ships. I was part of the maintenance team.
600lb nuclear depth charge. We had the Westland Wasp and later the Westland Lynx helicopters which were nuclear capable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WE.177


Not such a boring fact!

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Mick F
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Re: Boring fact

Postby Mick F » 10 Sep 2019, 12:49pm

:lol: :lol:
Not boring at all, I suppose.

I did the "acquaint" course a couple or three times in Portsmouth as part of pre-joining training for the ships. Also did firefighting and small arms training as well.

The "bomb" or the "weapon" as it was referred to was almost bomb-proof in its design. Very safe indeed and you could drop the thing from a height and all it would do is dent it. There were lots of safety features built in.

The only thing you had to be careful about, was keeping away from the tail. The parachute deployment was activated by a delicate package of a detonator of HE (high explosive). If it was knocked, it could go off and the parachute would deploy! Dangerous if you were standing there! :shock: Safe really, but it was one of those things you had to be careful about.

There were two sub-critical masses of uranium that were brought together by a conventional explosion and when they came together they formed a super-critical mass and a nuclear explosion resulted. Sub-critical masses only radiate, not explode. The whole unit was in a hard steel case - probably lead in there too? - and as a complete weapon it didn't have a radiation hazard at all but they were monitored 24/7 of course.

In order to set the weapon off, two keys had to be in. One held by the flight crew, and one by the commanding officer. It needed both to arm it.
Even then, it wouldn't go off unless it was launched from the aircraft, reached a specific descent speed threshold, then reached a specific depth below the surface. If any one of those thresholds were't reached, it wouldn't go off at all.

Safe as houses. :D
Mick F. Cornwall

Mike Sales
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Re: Boring fact

Postby Mike Sales » 10 Sep 2019, 12:58pm

Mick F wrote::
The "bomb" or the "weapon" as it was referred to was almost bomb-proof in its design. Very safe indeed and you could drop the thing from a height and all it would do is dent it. There were lots of safety features built in.

D



Just as well. There have been a lot of "Broken Arrow" accidents of nukes dropped by accident and sometimes lost.

"Broken Arrow" is the name given to nuclear weapon accidents, whether they be by accidental launching, firing, detonating, theft or loss of the weapon. The U.S. admits to having 32 broken arrows worldwide, with six nuclear weapons having been lost and never recovered.


https://interestingengineering.com/broken-arrows-the-worlds-lost-nuclear-weapons

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Re: Boring fact

Postby francovendee » 10 Sep 2019, 1:41pm

fausto copy wrote:
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
What a pension :P


I was only a lowly cable jointer for 20 years followed by a Plant Protection Officer for 19.
My salary was always well under the national average and I left after almost 40 years service, but at 55 years of age, therefore having a pension reduced by 20%.
There are things, like health, worth far more to me than money and thankfully (at the moment at least) I've got more of the former. :)


I left my employment at the age of 60 but sadly had to lose 50% of my pension :cry: We've managed OK for the following 16 years and are only now struggling a bit because of the fall in the value of the £.
I've never regretted retiring early and have recommended it to numerous friends but mainly they are frightened to take the plunge.

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Re: Boring fact

Postby DaveReading » 10 Sep 2019, 2:04pm

Tangled Metal wrote:I worked over summer for British Aerospace when 16. I signed papers without knowing what they were. Well it was a really good job and experience so I wasn't really worried what I signed to get the job. Just a kid and all that.

If one was related to the official secrets act would it still supply over 30 years later and now an adult? Not that i had access to secrets of course.

Also, how could you find out if your had signed it and it was still in effect?

The Official Secrets Act is no different from any other law - it applies to you, me and everyone else regardless of whether we have taken the time to read the legislation in question or not.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Boring fact

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 10 Sep 2019, 2:37pm

Hi,
francovendee wrote:
fausto copy wrote:
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
What a pension :P


I was only a lowly cable jointer for 20 years followed by a Plant Protection Officer for 19.
My salary was always well under the national average and I left after almost 40 years service, but at 55 years of age, therefore having a pension reduced by 20%.
There are things, like health, worth far more to me than money and thankfully (at the moment at least) I've got more of the former. :)


I left my employment at the age of 60 but sadly had to lose 50% of my pension :cry: We've managed OK for the following 16 years and are only now struggling a bit because of the fall in the value of the £.
I've never regretted retiring early and have recommended it to numerous friends but mainly they are frightened to take the plunge.

When retirement was 65 you left our old firm.
Then a while later they would be back.............bored to tears with nothing to do.

Its true that not only is it a monetary juggle but a sanity one.
One fact remains that whatever you do you will still die on the same day, theoretically.

Taking it early might reduce the pot, but you have more payments, and although this should balance out remembering you will still die on the same day, a small quick calculation might sway it for you, I am talking a few years early.
50% is a large cut, but we don't know when we will die, my father died before his pension and as we know only half goes to spouse.

One of my pensions will pay the whole fund out by the time I am 85, that one I will probably cash in as I don't think in 25 years time I will need much money and odds are I might not make it anyway.

They bank on average age of death to make sure they will always make a profit, but that means that an individual might gain or lose if they are realistic about there health, you decide what your retirement days start like.
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