Speaker of the House!

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Tangled Metal
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Speaker of the House!

Postby Tangled Metal » 10 Sep 2019, 10:44am

Is it a job for an mp who has never made it to cabinet level or who will never reach it again, as a way to get more pay towards the end of their career before retiring and sitting in the house of lords?

If so harriet Harman makes a good candidate. Ex cabinet member, now out of favour with her leadership and unlikely to make you're house if lords without a decent spell in the speaker's chair.

Otherwise the deputy speaker bloke is a shoe in for the role, with experience too!

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mjr
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Re: Speaker of the House!

Postby mjr » 10 Sep 2019, 11:17am

Tangled Metal wrote:Is it a job for an mp who has never made it to cabinet level or who will never reach it again, as a way to get more pay towards the end of their career before retiring and sitting in the house of lords?

No. Also see below about sitting in the Lords.

If so harriet Harman makes a good candidate. Ex cabinet member, now out of favour with her leadership and unlikely to make you're house if lords without a decent spell in the speaker's chair.

Otherwise the deputy speaker bloke is a shoe in for the role, with experience too!

I assume you mean Sir Lindsay Hoyle as the other deputies are Dame Eleanor Laing and Dame Rosie Winterton. Former deputy Nigel Evans is also still an MP but would be a very partisan appointment because he's currently chairman of the 1922 Committee of backbench Conservatives, but such a "FU democracy" move would be consistent with reports that Bercow will not enter the Lords immediately as punishment for his Brexit-related rulings.

Labour's Chris Bryant and Conservatives Sir Edward Leigh are other candidates to have declared, along with Harriet Harman. You could also look at any other members of the Panel of Chairs as possible candidates, especially those who haven't taken hard lines on Brexit.
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Psamathe
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Re: Speaker of the House!

Postby Psamathe » 10 Sep 2019, 11:26am

Beyond my knowledge but I had a feeling that traditionally the speaker appointed alternated between Conservative and Labour. So (if I'm right, big "if"), next speaker should be from Labour.

But then the current Conservative Cult seem to disregard any traditions or anything that might get in the way of their personal ideology/party interest.

But they are now in something of a minority and maybe the recently purged Conservatives are more balanced and more likely to support tradition in the appointment.

Ian

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Re: Speaker of the House!

Postby slowster » 10 Sep 2019, 12:09pm

Psamathe wrote:I had a feeling that traditionally the speaker appointed alternated between Conservative and Labour. So (if I'm right, big "if"), next speaker should be from Labour.

Bercow's election as Speaker was not a straightforward case of a Conservative MP being elected to follow a Labour MP in the role. Bercow was seen as a fairly left wing Conservative and he did not have much support from his fellow Conservative MPs. It was argued that many Labour MPs voted for him because of that, i.e. the Conservatives got what they were strictly entitled to (one of their MPs being Speaker), but not the MP that the Conservative MPs wanted as Speaker.

Given the Speaker's crucial role in giving ordinary backbench MPs opportunity to challenge Ministers and hold the Government to account, backbench MPs will want the new Speaker to be someone they can trust to defend their interests, not those of the Government of the day. The hard core Brexit supporting Conservative MPs like those in the ERG are a minority in the Conservative Parliamentary Party, and even more of a minority amongst all MPs of all parties.

Therefore, I think it's likely that MPs will choose someone with a track record that shows he/she will be prepared to fight for their voice to be heard in Parliament. Bercow has effectively set a benchmark by his willingness to do that at a time when it really mattered, and MPs will want similar from the replacement they choose.

It would not suprise me if Labour MPs voted for one of the Conservative MPs who have had the whip withdrawn, partly because in rebelling against the Government of their own party they have shown themselves to have the independence and courage that backbench MPs will consider essential for the role, and partly because electing one of the rebels would stick two fingers up to the Conservative Government. I suspect a good many Conservative backbenchers might similarly be keen to vote for one of the rebels, because I think many are unhappy with the expulsions and they too will not want a supine Speaker. Given his legal background and expertise, Dominic Grieve might be an obvious candidate, and many Labour MPs would probably happily vote for him knowing that his election to Speaker would anger the Government and hard core pro-Brexit Conservatives.

Psamathe
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Re: Speaker of the House!

Postby Psamathe » 10 Sep 2019, 12:13pm

slowster wrote:.....
It would not suprise me if Labour MPs voted for one of the Conservative MPs who have had the whip withdrawn, partly because in rebelling against the Government of their own party they have shown themselves to have the independence and courage that backbench MPs will consider essential for the role, and partly because electing one of the rebels would stick two fingers up to the Conservative Government. I suspect a good many Conservative backbenchers might similarly be keen to vote for one of the rebels, because I think many are unhappy with the expulsions and they too will not want a supine Speaker. Given his legal background and expertise, Dominic Grieve might be an obvious candidate, and many Labour MPs would probably happily vote for him knowing that his election to Speaker would anger the Government and hard core pro-Brexit Conservatives.

The issue I see with one of them [purged Conservatives] becoming Speaker is that we have an election soon and those who have not announced they are stepping down will have their re-election prospects dramatically reduced - however loved they are by their constituents they will have to face a split Conservative vote.

Ian
Last edited by Psamathe on 10 Sep 2019, 12:17pm, edited 1 time in total.

Psamathe
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Re: Speaker of the House!

Postby Psamathe » 10 Sep 2019, 12:16pm

I see it as good that the Speaker is stepping down before the probably General Election meaning that his replacement can be selected at a time when the Conservatives don't have a majority meaning they cannot just chose one of their own who will do their bidding.

I've recently become quite disappointed how many Conservative loyal MPs are happy to believe some of the tripe Boris is spouting and ignore more balanced fact from reliable sources.

Ian

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mjr
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Re: Speaker of the House!

Postby mjr » 10 Sep 2019, 12:19pm

Psamathe wrote:Beyond my knowledge but I had a feeling that traditionally the speaker appointed alternated between Conservative and Labour. So (if I'm right, big "if"), next speaker should be from Labour.

It did for a while, but the tradition was broken when Martin followed Boothroyd (both Labour) in 2000.
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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Re: Speaker of the House!

Postby mjr » 10 Sep 2019, 12:22pm

Psamathe wrote:The issue I see with one of them [purged Conservatives] becoming Speaker is that we have an election soon and those who have not announced they are stepping down will have their re-election prospects dramatically reduced - however loved they are by their constituents they will have to face a split Conservative vote.

The convention that the main parties don't traditionally stand against the Speaker might have helped them in that case - if Boris hadn't already announced the Cons were going to break that tradition and stand a candidate against Bercow!
MJR, mostly pedalling 3-speed roadsters. KL+West Norfolk BUG incl social easy rides http://www.klwnbug.co.uk
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slowster
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Re: Speaker of the House!

Postby slowster » 10 Sep 2019, 12:25pm

Psamathe wrote:The issue I see with one of them becoming Speaker is that we have an election soon and those who have not announced they are stepping down will have their re-election prospects dramatically reduced - however loved they are by their constituents they will have to face a split Conservative vote.

The convention is that other parties do not field candidates in the Speaker's constituency, so that the Speaker is re-elected unopposed. The Government was reportedly planning to break with that convention by fielding a Conservative candidate in Bercow's constituency to oppose him. It could do the same if one of the rebels were elected Speaker, but it would be a risky strategy/raising the stakes (although Johnson, Cummings et al appear to be willing to take any and all risks). For the Government to field a candidate against a newly elected Speaker would be a direct challenge to the House of Commons and MPs, and might result in a backlash by MPs, resulting in even more Conservative backbenchers and other MPs rebelling against the Government.

Oldjohnw
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Re: Speaker of the House!

Postby Oldjohnw » 10 Sep 2019, 12:36pm

A few years ago, breaking the convention, Farage stood against the speaker.

He was involved in a tiny plane air crash so that didn't work out too well.
John

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PDQ Mobile
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Re: Speaker of the House!

Postby PDQ Mobile » 10 Sep 2019, 12:52pm

Oldjohnw wrote:A few years ago, breaking the convention, Farage stood against the speaker.

He was involved in a tiny plane air crash so that didn't work out too well.

It certainly could have worked out better! :twisted:

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Spinners
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Re: Speaker of the House!

Postby Spinners » 10 Sep 2019, 1:20pm

Pity Alan Johnson wasn't still an MP.

Give it to Ken Clarke.
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Speaker of the House!

Postby Tangled Metal » 10 Sep 2019, 1:23pm

mjr wrote:
Psamathe wrote:Beyond my knowledge but I had a feeling that traditionally the speaker appointed alternated between Conservative and Labour. So (if I'm right, big "if"), next speaker should be from Labour.

It did for a while, but the tradition was broken when Martin followed Boothroyd (both Labour) in 2000.

I thought it was labour who used their majority to end the spending party system for the speaker.

Bercow was reelected speaker too iirc. Wasn't it the reelection that he won with labour support at the expense of a Tory favoured candidate, the first election he was still a Tory candidate for the role? As always I stand to be corrected if my memory has failed... again!

Tangled Metal
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Re: Speaker of the House!

Postby Tangled Metal » 10 Sep 2019, 1:25pm

Spinners wrote:Pity Alan Johnson wasn't still an MP.

Give it to Ken Clarke.

The mother of the house is a candidate, why not the father if the house? Possibly because he's a kit older and not of this house for much longer me thinks. I suspect he's not going to stand at the next ge, just a feeling I have.

Psamathe
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Re: Speaker of the House!

Postby Psamathe » 10 Sep 2019, 1:29pm

Tangled Metal wrote:
Spinners wrote:Pity Alan Johnson wasn't still an MP.

Give it to Ken Clarke.

The mother of the house is a candidate, why not the father if the house? Possibly because he's a kit older and not of this house for much longer me thinks. I suspect he's not going to stand at the next ge, just a feeling I have.

I thought he had already announced he wont be standing next General election.

Ian