PMs honours: who deserves one?

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Spinners
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Re: PMs honours: who deserves one?

Postby Spinners » 11 Sep 2019, 10:46am

With honours being handed out like confetti in recent years, including knighthoods to sports people still in competition, then I approve of Boycott's knighthood at the age of 78 - it should have happened bloomin' years ago! His cricket books such as 'Opening Up' and 'In the Fast Lane' have graced my bookshelves for many a year.
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Tangled Metal
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Re: PMs honours: who deserves one?

Postby Tangled Metal » 11 Sep 2019, 11:31am

Examples not if of knighthood but of the lack of repentance and acceptance of guilt on release. One example of a dangerous criminal being paroled without accepting guilt was the black cab rapist. We've discussed that case on here at the time iirc but fortunately on public outcry and an appeal it got overturned.

The way that hires refusal toaccept guilt over his conviction has made what Boycott did worse, assuming his conviction was correct or justified of course. It's like the act isn't the worse part. In our justice system at most guilt only results in more if the sentence being served. So instead of accepting guilt and getting out of prison after possibly less than half the imposed sentence has been served someone might be in there for 2/3rds of the full sentence. Or whatever the system is for reducing time served for conduct in prison.

francovendee
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Re: PMs honours: who deserves one?

Postby francovendee » 11 Sep 2019, 1:07pm

Ben@Forest wrote:Given the furore over Geoff Boycott l can't say l heard about any other recipients in May's honours.

Like him or loathe him l think Boycott made a good point about the inquisitorial legal system in France compared to the accusatorial system here. If the investigating magistrate found Boycott abrasive, difficult and misogynist his/her determining of the facts could have been skewed. And Boycott, for all his other qualities, is abrasive, difficult and misogynist; but he may have been innocent.

The inquisitorial system is sometimes said to produce fewer wrongful convictions, but from what I've read in cases of murder, rape, violence etc it is as likely to produce wrongful convictions as the accusatorial system.

I think his arrogance can't have helped his case. His cricketing skills were above average but not great, look at his run rate. Useful bloke to put in and play for time or as a night watchman. If chasing runs he was never the man. His know all comments really spoil any broadcast for me. He always knows better than the captain how the game should be played

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Re: PMs honours: who deserves one?

Postby Ben@Forest » 11 Sep 2019, 1:10pm

In the UK a prisoner who continues to maintain innocence but who does everything required of him/her, including education or behaviour workshops required, can still be released upon completion of half their sentence.

Boycott only received a short suspended sentence and a fine but I don't know where that 'fits' in sentences for domestic abuse in France. According to him the plaintiff asked for a million pounds in return for no case or dropping the case. There is no way of knowing the truth of that, but it leaves a question hanging.

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Re: PMs honours: who deserves one?

Postby Ben@Forest » 11 Sep 2019, 1:14pm

francovendee wrote:I think his arrogance can't have helped his case. His cricketing skills were above average but not great, look at his run rate. Useful bloke to put in and play for time or as a night watchman. If chasing runs he was never the man. His know all comments really spoil any broadcast for me. He always knows better than the captain how the game should be played


I quite like his commentary, it's often incisive and neatly describes what the bowler or batter might be trying to achieve. And when a player of any nationality is playing very well he is unstinting in his praise.

merseymouth
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Re: PMs honours: who deserves one?

Postby merseymouth » 11 Sep 2019, 1:46pm

Hi all, Funny things Honours? Michael Caine got Dubbed, but whilst he likes to be called "Sir Michael" he actually isn't?
His passport says "Sir Maurice Michelwhite", Not a lot of people know that :lol: :lol: :lol: . TTFN MM

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Morzedec
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Re: PMs honours: who deserves one?

Postby Morzedec » 11 Sep 2019, 2:18pm

Back in the UK once again.

Lord Boardman? Sir Phil Liggett? Dame Phillipa York? His Honour Mick F?

Happy days,

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Spinners
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Re: PMs honours: who deserves one?

Postby Spinners » 11 Sep 2019, 2:20pm

francovendee wrote:If chasing runs he was never the man.



Really? He might have been orthodox in his own era (nevermind today's era) but he could play the one-day game as the Aussies will testify in the 1979-1980 Benson & Hedges ODI. I can still see him racing off the pitch with the late David Bairstow having batted through the England innings in a day/night match.
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pete75
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Re: PMs honours: who deserves one?

Postby pete75 » 12 Sep 2019, 5:07pm

Apparently Boycott punched her about twenty times but it took him half an hour to get the first five in. :wink:

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Re: PMs honours: who deserves one?

Postby Ben@Forest » 19 Sep 2019, 9:08am

Ben@Forest wrote:Boycott only received a short suspended sentence and a fine but I don't know where that 'fits' in sentences for domestic abuse in France. According to him the plaintiff asked for a million pounds in return for no case or dropping the case. There is no way of knowing the truth of that, but it leaves a question hanging.


This is being reported on again in the Telegraph, apparently the plaintiff asking for £1 million in return for dropping the case is a matter of court record, so that is true.

They're also reporting upon a historical account of the plaintiff assaulting a man whilst she was drunk, the man assaulted pressed no charges though.

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Re: PMs honours: who deserves one?

Postby Psamathe » 19 Sep 2019, 9:51am

Ben@Forest wrote:
Ben@Forest wrote:Boycott only received a short suspended sentence and a fine but I don't know where that 'fits' in sentences for domestic abuse in France. According to him the plaintiff asked for a million pounds in return for no case or dropping the case. There is no way of knowing the truth of that, but it leaves a question hanging.


This is being reported on again in the Telegraph, apparently the plaintiff asking for £1 million in return for dropping the case is a matter of court record, so that is true.

They're also reporting upon a historical account of the plaintiff assaulting a man whilst she was drunk, the man assaulted pressed no charges though.

But he was found guilty by a court. He had all the normally legal options available (present defence, appeal possibilities, representation, etc.). Several years later should we be revisiting his innocence or guilt based on a few snippets of reported info (info that has only been sought to criticise or defend his honour by questioning the courts).

The honours system can only be about sending a message e.g. do good and your rules will maybe acknowledge it. The "message" becomes the wrong message when people chosen have baggage and take the "I don't give a toss" attitude. If we need to honours sports people then there are undoubtedly loads who do not have criminal convictions and who do "give a toss" and are being overlooked.

But to me, as I said before, it just highlights the lunacy of the system ... wonder what Sir Jimmy thinks about it?

Ian

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Re: PMs honours: who deserves one?

Postby Oldjohnw » 19 Sep 2019, 10:00am

Just for the record, the PM's resignation honours are his/hers and are entirely political. Elevation to the Peerage is not classed as an honour although the PM proposes the names and invites the other parties for proposals.

New Year and Birthday honours, whilst ultimately at least nominally recommended by the PM, are drawn from all parts of society and anyone can nominate. Various committees scrutinise proposals. Some are, of course, political but most are not.

Unfortunately, resignation lists bring the whole system into disrepute.
John

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merseymouth
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Re: PMs honours: who deserves one?

Postby merseymouth » 19 Sep 2019, 5:32pm

Hi Psmathe, So you don't believe in "Wrongful Conviction"? Especially when perjury is involved!
Read up about Alfred Dreyfus, banged up on Devil's Island for yonks based on lies etc, mixed with strong Antisemitism (Well before Anti Zionism).
Alsace Loraine was a hell hole for the Jewish inhabitants, read all about it!
After Emil Zola published his famous "J'Accuse" letter thing got handled properly, with Esterhazy rightly being outed a the real traitor!
The current revelations over Ms Moore including her use of Max Clifford would point to there being need for a full review of the case. And this comes from someone who has no worthwhile opinion of Boycott, either as a player or pundit!
Don't take her word on trust, the current evidence would seem to be saying she is a serial perpetrator of factual inexactitude! TTFN MM

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Re: PMs honours: who deserves one?

Postby pete75 » 19 Sep 2019, 6:54pm

merseymouth wrote:Hi Psmathe, So you don't believe in "Wrongful Conviction"? Especially when perjury is involved!
Read up about Alfred Dreyfus, banged up on Devil's Island for yonks based on lies etc, mixed with strong Antisemitism (Well before Anti Zionism).
Alsace Loraine was a hell hole for the Jewish inhabitants, read all about it!
After Emil Zola published his famous "J'Accuse" letter thing got handled properly, with Esterhazy rightly being outed a the real traitor!
The current revelations over Ms Moore including her use of Max Clifford would point to there being need for a full review of the case. And this comes from someone who has no worthwhile opinion of Boycott, either as a player or pundit!
Don't take her word on trust, the current evidence would seem to be saying she is a serial perpetrator of factual inexactitude! TTFN MM


What has anti semitism got to to do with the Boycott case?
He was found guilty at his first trial and his conviction was upheld on appeal. What evidence have you got that the court made the wrong decision twice?
What evidence do you have that she is a serial liar? Next you'll be saying she did this to herself.

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Psamathe
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Re: PMs honours: who deserves one?

Postby Psamathe » 19 Sep 2019, 7:43pm

merseymouth wrote:Hi Psmathe, So you don't believe in "Wrongful Conviction"? Especially when perjury is involved!
Read up about Alfred Dreyfus, banged up on Devil's Island for yonks based on lies etc, mixed with strong Antisemitism (Well before Anti Zionism).
Alsace Loraine was a hell hole for the Jewish inhabitants, read all about it!
After Emil Zola published his famous "J'Accuse" letter thing got handled properly, with Esterhazy rightly being outed a the real traitor!
The current revelations over Ms Moore including her use of Max Clifford would point to there being need for a full review of the case. And this comes from someone who has no worthwhile opinion of Boycott, either as a player or pundit!
Don't take her word on trust, the current evidence would seem to be saying she is a serial perpetrator of factual inexactitude! TTFN MM

As I said before (try reading my posts rather than just knee-jerking 'cos repeating myself is getting a bit irritating) All we are getting at the moment is snippets from indirect sources who don't like criticism of Boycott. We are not getting and balance and complete picture of the evidence to form any balanced opinion. So we rely on those appointed to look at the evidence and make such decisions.

Listing miscarriages of justice does not make Boycott's case a miscarriage of justice. He went through a trial and presented his defence. Apparently he then went through an appeal which found the conviction safe. So now with one or two undoubtedly biased and selected bits of evidence we cannot assume miscarriage of justice because some failed PM can't appreciate such honours send a message and honouring somebody convicted of assault send a rather bad message.

Ian