PMs honours: who deserves one?

[merseymouth]

Hello Pete75, At no point did I say that "Antisemitism" had anything to do with the Boycott case, but it was certainly a factor in the Dreyfus Affair!
Even though the charge was High Treason, leaking military secrets, but it was rampant at that time in France!
Citation offered - Read "Dreyfus" by Michael Burns, Chatto & Windus Ltd.
But back to Boycott. Just like the current "Nick" affair, the Police took things at face value from a simplistic point of view, just as it is widely assumed that Domestic Violence is all male perpetrated! Simplistic & Wrong! I know all to well that they scheming, manipulative trait can be present in what my generation would call the "Fair Sex". Much in the same way that all Paedophiles are male?
Remember Timothy Evans? He was executed for the death of his wife, banged to rights! Proper investigation would prove that John Reginald Christie was a mass murderer which included the death of Evans's wife, didn't bring Evans back to life.
Remember there was no direct eye witness as to how Ms Moore's injuries where inflicted! It all came down to her word against his, with the benefit of the doubt because of the "Delicate Female" sway!
I personally know of a case were a very manipulative woman well and truely kippered up her long time live in partner/latterly husband, she was very, very dangerous! Because I as a neighbour wouldn't do a domestic chore for her she keyed my wife's car, provable!
The man was totally ruined.
So view things with open eyes, taking into account a wider spread of evidence & case history.
I don't say Boycott didn't do it, nor can you say he did, Ms Moore's other history might allow Boycott to be given the benefit of the doubt! MM

[Psamathe]

....
But back to Boycott. Just like the current "Nick" affair, the Police took things at face value from a simplistic point of view, just as it is widely assumed that Domestic Violence is all male perpetrated!.....

Can you point us to the evidence that shows Boycotts conviction is unsafe because the "Police took things at face value". Such a justification for questioning his conviction would require a detailed assessment of Police evidence that would be difficult to get hold of so long after the conviction.

It's the sort of evidence an Appeal Court would look at so maybe if he went to Appeal to question the Police "taking things at face value" ... oh he did and the Appeal Court upheld the conviction.

So where are you getting the evidence of Police investigation shortcomings?

Ian

[merseymouth]

Psmathe, Response? CARL BEECH ! . MM

[Psamathe]

Psmathe, Response? CARL BEECH ! :twisted: . MM

What has he got to do with boycott's conviction?

I was asking for the evidence the "Police took things at face value". And you come back with a single name that I thought had absolurely nothing to do with what you'd been claiming. This is just beyond daft.

Ian

[merseymouth]

Oh My hat, The evidence emerging about Ms Moore is all pointing to her being a serial teller of "Porkies", which she uses as leverage to finance he desired lifestyle!
The number of persons convicted who after many years of denial finally get exonerated is massive, too many for people to enact denial!
One particular case that is memorable in Liverpool was called "The Cameo Murders"! A cinema manager was shot dead, the Police Inspector in the case set his eye on two particular men, men who he had been trying for ages to get sent down, despite no evidence against them, but to him they smelt dirty.
Cut to the chase it took 60 years to unearth the evidence that the officer, who later became Chief Constable of the City of Liverpool Police, both hid and falsified evidence that would later prove that they were both innocent! But one having been hung offered no remedy for the miscarriage of justice.
Cases such as that led to PACE, Police And Criminal Evidence Act, yet even now similar cases of illegal failure to reveal evidence occur, indeed I myself had to take action against a top officer of the Port of Liverpool Police! Falsification of evidence, suppression of facts, et al. He took early retirement before I could get him charged with Corruption in Public Office. But at least I forced the P-o-LP to have to formally sign up for PACE, various officers dealt with including the being prevented from acting in a custody role. I still have the evidence that did for him, with an upshot being that I had a number of the forces serving officers asking for help for them to sort out the rotten nature of the force!
So maybe you should learn to accept that not all who are convicted are guilty as charged. IGICB MM

[Psamathe]

Oh My hat, The evidence emerging about Ms Moore is all pointing to her being a serial teller of "Porkies", which she uses as leverage to finance he desired lifestyle!
The number of persons convicted who after many years of denial finally get exonerated is massive, too many for people to enact denial!
One particular case that is memorable in Liverpool was called "The Cameo Murders"! A cinema manager was shot dead, the Police Inspector in the case set his eye on two particular men, men who he had been trying for ages to get sent down, despite no evidence against them, but to him they smelt dirty.
Cut to the chase it took 60 years to unearth the evidence that the officer, who later became Chief Constable of the City of Liverpool Police, both hid and falsified evidence that would later prove that they were both innocent! But one having been hung offered no remedy for the miscarriage of justice.
Cases such as that led to PACE, Police And Criminal Evidence Act, yet even now similar cases of illegal failure to reveal evidence occur, indeed I myself had to take action against a top officer of the Port of Liverpool Police! Falsification of evidence, suppression of facts, et al. He took early retirement before I could get him charged with Corruption in Public Office. But at least I forced the P-o-LP to have to formally sign up for PACE, various officers dealt with including the being prevented from acting in a custody role. I still have the evidence that did for him, with an upshot being that I had a number of the forces serving officers asking for help for them to sort out the rotten nature of the force!
So maybe you should learn to accept that not all who are convicted are guilty as charged. IGICB MM

Just because there have been some miscarriages of justice does not mean all justice is miscarried! I quite accept that "not all who are convicted are guilty as charged" but that does NOT mean that everybody charged is not guilty.

You still have not explained how Carl Beech related to Boycott but assuming you mean it as Carl Beech in relation to a Police investigation - one poor Police investigation does not mean ALL Police investigations are flawed.

I've not seen evidence that "Ms Moore is all pointing to her being a serial teller of "Porkies". You keep making all these claims about all sorts of things assuming that however questionable they are we should just take your word for it.

If new evidence is emerging then Boycott can use that to appeal to clear his name. Evidence was presented in court. "Telling Pokies" could be being used as an irrelevant inference - did she lie about how much she paid for sausages in Tesco? or has she been found lying to courts on other matters?

Remember that just look at the photos of her after her beating and it is quite understandable she was asking for significant amounts of compensation from the wealthy person the court found committed the offence.

Ian

[merseymouth]

Psmathe, Until you have never suffered an injustice you will be in denial of the possibility!
I have never said that ALL Police investigations are flawed or unlawful, but such incidents have & will occur, lots of names to throw up?
Try Stefan Kisko, he was tried for child murder, many years later it was proven conclusively not to have done, with the correct person found by DNA. Stefan spent many years in prison with his mother in torment. He died not long after release.
The Guilford & Birmingham IRA Murder trials led to terms of long imprisonment. yet the only evidence which led to convictions was flawed! The cellophane on cigarette cartons & playing cards led to the assumption that all of the accused had handled Semtex, ooop's. My own father triggered security alarms at Moscow Airport? Set to detect such explosives it read my father's heart condition medication as explosives! Bugger.
So you don't know how wrong things can get, lucky you. MM

[Oldjohnw]

Logic has taken an interesting detour.

Since there have been done miscarriages of justice over the years it seems it is necessarily so that Boycott is innocent and his accuser is a liar.

I'm working on it.

[Mike Sales]

Logic has taken an interesting detour.

Since there have been done miscarriages of justice over the years it seems it is necessarily so that Boycott is innocent and his accuser is a liar.

I'm working on it.

By Merseymouth's "logic" there can are no guilty men in prison!
Peter Sutcliffe? Clearly innocent. Give him an OBE.
Harold Shipman? An exemplary GP. Nobel Prize?
Fred West? A benefactor to mankind. Lord Fred of Gloucester.

[Psamathe]

Psmathe, Until you have never suffered an injustice you will be in denial of the possibility!
I have never said that ALL Police investigations are flawed or unlawful, but such incidents have & will occur, lots of names to throw up?
Try Stefan Kisko, he was tried for child murder, many years later it was proven conclusively not to have done, with the correct person found by DNA. Stefan spent many years in prison with his mother in torment. He died not long after release.
The Guilford & Birmingham IRA Murder trials led to terms of long imprisonment. yet the only evidence which led to convictions was flawed! The cellophane on cigarette cartons & playing cards led to the assumption that all of the accused had handled Semtex, ooop's. My own father triggered security alarms at Moscow Airport? Set to detect such explosives it read my father's heart condition medication as explosives! Bugger.
So you don't know how wrong things can get, lucky you. MM

For goodness sake read what I wrote. I'm not denying that miscarriages of justice occur. I'm saying that without evidence of a miscarriage of justice we can't just assume a conviction we don't agree with is a miscarriage. Need evidence of miscarriage and I keep asking for some in the Boycott case but you keep failing to notice of failing to provide any.

Without some evidence your suggestion that Police messed-up has no foundation. Need something stronger than a court case and a court appeal (that found him guilty and then found the conviction was safe).

I'm getting more than tired having to keep repeating myself. Provide some evidence 'cos I'm not going to keep spending my time repeating myself. It's not difficult and I feel I am being more than tolerant with what at the moment are your wild allegations.

Ian

[merseymouth]

hello again, Whilst I fully accept that not all who shout "I'm Innocent" actually are, plenty of people claim all through their trial and incarceration are like driven snow!
What often makes things wrong is that some feel that justice must be speedy, hence poor investigative process being used. Not all Police Officers are sloppy or imprecise, but also not all complainants are truthful! But sadly too many cases just proceed for the speediest conclusion possible, sometimes with dire consequences.
Nor am I saying that the former cricketer is definitely innocent, merely that that particular lady has got a bit of a history, why couldn't the people who have reported her observed behaviour be correct?
Maybe the folk who leap blindly to her aid would like her to be given an Honour? What is also evident is that alcohol is not a substance that she should avail herself of! MM

[Cyril Haearn]

MM is right in part, in trumpland people have been executed, put to death (often poor black people), later they were proved to be innocent
I (we?) know next to nothing about an old cricketer, I dinnae really care either

Trying to get My Thread back on track
Which thrilling young sportspersons deserve honours? I understand Our Boys have been playing good cricket

[pete75]

Hello Pete75, At no point did I say that "Antisemitism" had anything to do with the Boycott case, but it was certainly a factor in the Dreyfus Affair!
Even though the charge was High Treason, leaking military secrets, but it was rampant at that time in France!
Citation offered - Read "Dreyfus" by Michael Burns, Chatto & Windus Ltd.
But back to Boycott. Just like the current "Nick" affair, the Police took things at face value from a simplistic point of view, just as it is widely assumed that Domestic Violence is all male perpetrated! Simplistic & Wrong! I know all to well that they scheming, manipulative trait can be present in what my generation would call the "Fair Sex". Much in the same way that all Paedophiles are male?
Remember Timothy Evans? He was executed for the death of his wife, banged to rights! Proper investigation would prove that John Reginald Christie was a mass murderer which included the death of Evans's wife, didn't bring Evans back to life.
Remember there was no direct eye witness as to how Ms Moore's injuries where inflicted! It all came down to her word against his, with the benefit of the doubt because of the "Delicate Female" sway!
I personally know of a case were a very manipulative woman well and truely kippered up her long time live in partner/latterly husband, she was very, very dangerous! Because I as a neighbour wouldn't do a domestic chore for her she keyed my wife's car, provable!
The man was totally ruined.
So view things with open eyes, taking into account a wider spread of evidence & case history.
I don't say Boycott didn't do it, nor can you say he did, Ms Moore's other history might allow Boycott to be given the benefit of the doubt! MM

What's your explanation for her injuries?

[Tangled Metal]

Shortly after my granddad's death my gran told me a story I'd never heard before. I'm still not sure my mum knows it. It was in the early days of their marriage and they were living at my grand parents house along with some if her brothers and sisters and her brother in law. Biggish house but full of people.

Times were hard despite family members having jobs. My grandad used you cycle from IIRC bootle to blundell sands to collect driftwood to make the little coal last a bit longer they were building the coastguard station at the time. Anyway two managers got beaten up and the payroll stolen. The police arrested my granddad because the managers fingered him. Well he was there a lot after shifts on the railways collecting wood.

Being American the police had him in their sights for this crime. Even without a conviction the arrest was enough to deport him. My gran tried living in America but it broke her heart being away from family. It would have finished them. My mum wouldn't have been born.

Fortunately for them my gran had a big brother who was high up in the liverpool police force, we're talking the officer in charge it drug division and who had passed all the exams to reach chief constable rank. A high flier who was also something in the masons. The story goes that he had a word in the right ears and all references to hutt grandad being arrested and interviewed disappeared. The officers investigating got put in their place. Oh and the two managers got arrested, property searched send money found. Inside job and police corruption / laziness.

That's a piece of family police corruption too. But it still has nothing to do with Boycott'a conviction. Absolutely nothing! To try and link cases if corruption like that is beyond ridiculous. I mean no offence by that but it is my view on this. You might be right that it was a wrongful conviction but that attempt at linkage to other miscarriages can never prove this. It's simply irrelevant.

[Cyril Haearn]

Plus One for such stories, did he get back to the UK and live happily ever after?
Were Americans persona non grata then, like other strangers have been?