Would you Abolish Eton?

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.

Would you Abolish Eton?

Yes
11
26%
No
27
64%
Maybe
2
5%
Dont Know
2
5%
 
Total votes: 42

Carlton green
Posts: 328
Joined: 22 Jun 2019, 12:27pm

Re: Would you Abolish Eton?

Postby Carlton green » 26 Sep 2019, 12:01pm

Paulatic wrote:..... and 56 years on from learning the game I’m still playing it so my education wasn’t totally wasted.

I’m surprised on this thread the support there is for private education. My vote was for none and I’d strongly advise looking at the Finnish education system.


Times ticks by and as it progresses so many things evolve and change. The best part of sixty years (since you were at school) has certainly changed UK society massively. The few privately educated children that I’ve overlapped with via my own State educated children have been pleasant enough and whilst confident they didn’t have an air of entitlement about them. Perhaps my children have been selective in who they overlapped with but State school kids can be pretty awful too and so can State Schools in general. I appreciate the logic but to tar all Private Schools with the same brush is unjust.

I think that support of the private system reflects modern times and pragmatism. To shut it down would overall be an act of national self harm with many unintended consequences, better by far to regulate it in various ways and to ensure that the ethos of such schools is socially responsible and not elitist.

The Finnish system is interesting but one needs to remember that their history and culture is different to ours too so what was a good change for them might well not be a good change for us. Personally I’d like to see the State Schools in this country being so good that few if any parents would see value in Private Education. Turn the issue on it’s head, but in doing so one might have to recognise that the bulk of State Schools fail to engage with their children well and that whilst their funds might not all be perfectly spent State Schools are still not sufficiently funded. I find it strange that we never had the money to fund schools properly when children could leave at sixteen, but somehow we found extra funds to (now) keep then there ‘till eighteen. Maybe I’m a cynic but IIRC the Government that introduced the change had some problems with youth unemployment, and unemployment in general.
Last edited by Carlton green on 26 Sep 2019, 12:23pm, edited 2 times in total.

landsurfer
Posts: 5031
Joined: 27 Oct 2012, 9:13pm
Location: Rotherham

Re: Would you Abolish Eton?

Postby landsurfer » 26 Sep 2019, 12:08pm

What is the actual problem with being elitist ?
We encourage elitism in sport, the very structure of modern sport is build around Elite Athletes.
Yet to be elite in education is a bad thing ...

Why ?
Be a do'er, not a watcher. Be a Sceaphierde, not a Sheep.
Mike Hall, Jenny Graham .. Respect. .... The Road Goes On Forever !

Psamathe
Posts: 10607
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Would you Abolish Eton?

Postby Psamathe » 26 Sep 2019, 12:17pm

landsurfer wrote:What is the actual problem with being elitist ?
We encourage elitism in sport, the very structure of modern sport is build around Elite Athletes.
Yet to be elite in education is a bad thing ...

Why ?

Elitist in sport is achieved by personal achievement.
Elitist in the context being discussed here is achieved though somebody else's achievement.

Many Public School boys do not get jobs in Government because they are the best most capable people. They get those jobs because of the tie they are wearing which was purchased for them by somebody else (who likely also had such a tie purchased for them by somebody else ...).

Ian

landsurfer
Posts: 5031
Joined: 27 Oct 2012, 9:13pm
Location: Rotherham

Re: Would you Abolish Eton?

Postby landsurfer » 26 Sep 2019, 12:28pm

Thanks for that Ian ..
Be a do'er, not a watcher. Be a Sceaphierde, not a Sheep.
Mike Hall, Jenny Graham .. Respect. .... The Road Goes On Forever !

mercalia
Posts: 11697
Joined: 22 Sep 2013, 10:03pm
Location: london South

Re: Would you Abolish Eton?

Postby mercalia » 26 Sep 2019, 12:53pm

landsurfer wrote:What is the actual problem with being elitist ?
We encourage elitism in sport, the very structure of modern sport is build around Elite Athletes.
Yet to be elite in education is a bad thing ...

Why ?


because in sport nothing depends on it, in education a lot does

Private schools help hoard wealth, power and opportunity for the few.” This comment by an anonymous Labour party source a few weeks ago states the problem in a nutshell.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/ ... nces-green

In the USA I understand that sport success can get you into good colleges, even though you might be as thick as 2 planks or of only average ability, then the gravy train starts

Psamathe
Posts: 10607
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 8:56pm

Re: Would you Abolish Eton?

Postby Psamathe » 26 Sep 2019, 1:18pm

brynpoeth wrote:I briefly described my misery at a minor public school, others care to do likewise?

For me it's far more complex. Probably the same for most people at most educational establishments there were beneficial aspects and negative aspects. Some aspects regarded as negative at the time were actually beneficial whilst some regarded as beneficial at the time were actually not so beneficial.

And what was "good" and what was "bad" probably depends on the path my life has taken and would be different for somebody else.

Ian

User avatar
Tigerbiten
Posts: 1938
Joined: 29 Jun 2009, 6:49am

Re: Would you Abolish Eton?

Postby Tigerbiten » 26 Sep 2019, 2:13pm

Psamathe wrote:
landsurfer wrote:What is the actual problem with being elitist ?
We encourage elitism in sport, the very structure of modern sport is build around Elite Athletes.
Yet to be elite in education is a bad thing ...

Why ?

Elitist in sport is achieved by personal achievement.
Elitist in the context being discussed here is achieved though somebody else's achievement.

Many Public School boys do not get jobs in Government because they are the best most capable people. They get those jobs because of the tie they are wearing which was purchased for them by somebody else (who likely also had such a tie purchased for them by somebody else ...).

Ian

Elitist in sport is achieved by personal achievement plus a hell of a lot of money ...... :D
Very few top sports elites don't have a manager/personal trainer/sponsor/etc/etc to help them.
You need the ability to start with, but without the money in the first place you probably don't become an elite because you still need to eat ....... :D
Unless it's a very minor sport, most elite athletes are not true amateurs.
Look how quickly most sports teams fall apart once the money runs out ....... :D

As for helping a friend of a friend, that's just human nature.
In the case of an athlete, a good junior coach points you to a better senior coach who then points you on to the best elite coach.
I do it, in my case it's limited to telling someone about a good bargain at the local shops due to lack of cash.
If I had a lot more cash then I'd could probably help them more ........ :lol:

Also are you saying if you won £10 million on the lottery you wouldn't move to a better area and then try and get your kid into that area to give him/her a better chance.
I know I would.

I see this type of article as the "have-nots" bashing the "haves" to try and score "brownie points".
With enough "brownie points" they then hope to become part of the "haves".
If they were part of the "haves" in the first place then they wouldn't bash it.
Again it's human nature.
If it wasn't then there won't be so many revolutions in history ...... :twisted:

YMMV ........ :D

softlips
Posts: 539
Joined: 12 Dec 2016, 8:51pm

Re: Would you Abolish Eton?

Postby softlips » 26 Sep 2019, 8:39pm

mercalia wrote:
landsurfer wrote:What is the actual problem with being elitist ?
We encourage elitism in sport, the very structure of modern sport is build around Elite Athletes.
Yet to be elite in education is a bad thing ...

Why ?


because in sport nothing depends on it, in education a lot does

Private schools help hoard wealth, power and opportunity for the few.” This comment by an anonymous Labour party source a few weeks ago states the problem in a nutshell.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/ ... nces-green

In the USA I understand that sport success can get you into good colleges, even though you might be as thick as 2 planks or of only average ability, then the gravy train starts


There are sports scholarships to private schools in the UK too. I know someone whose daughter attends one from a sports scholarship.