Diplomatic Immunity?

[thirdcrank]

I don't claim any particular knowledge of the American legal system, especially the civil side. That Daily Mail article refers to the insurance company's submission that the case should be dismissed. I don't know what standing they might have in a court case unless they stood to make an insurance payout.

I don't know any more about the bereaved family's motives than I've read; and I suppose I'm confused by what I've read.

As I said above, the family has my sympathy in this terrible case. I do think that the American spy connotations are fuelling media interest in a way which may make it harder for them to reach any closure.

[slowster]

That Daily Mail article refers to the insurance company's submission that the case should be dismissed. I don't know what standing they might have in a court case unless they stood to make an insurance payout.

The only possibility that occurs to me is that the motor insurer has a parent company which is a US company or has major US presence (i.e. assets). In that scenario the UK subsidiary would have no liability to pay under the policy, which would be restricted to awards made by a UK court, but a US parent or sister company might come under political, commercial and legal pressure to pay a US court award. That can happen because the US insurance market and laws can deliver some bizarre results making insurers retrospectively liable for events which were not covered by the policies they issued, so much so that some non-US insurers have withdrawn completely from having subsidiaries there or any other form of assets which might be seized to cover an award made by a US court.

[Psamathe]

Isn't it a matter of competency to find out about the more important aspects of driving in a foreign country? How can you be competent if you do not have in the front of your mind as you leave the base that you have to drive on the "wrong side"??....

Last time (some years ago) I drove France to UK, leaving ferry port on UK side lots of signs about side of road. If you run a US base where many of your staff will be used to driving on the right maybe a few signs on the road leaving the base? I've no idea if they have any but given what has happened maybe a good idea?

Ian

[Vorpal]

Isn't it a matter of competency to find out about the more important aspects of driving in a foreign country? How can you be competent if you do not have in the front of your mind as you leave the base that you have to drive on the "wrong side"??....

Last time (some years ago) I drove France to UK, leaving ferry port on UK side lots of signs about side of road. If you run a US base where many of your staff will be used to driving on the right maybe a few signs on the road leaving the base? I've no idea if they have any but given what has happened maybe a good idea?

Ian

I've been on Feltwell, and they certainly have large signs, indicating that drivers need to remember to drive on the left.

[merseymouth]

Morning all, But it still begs the question - "Why do the US Authorities insist on driving on the right hand side of the road within their bases?". Plain blooming stupid!
When our military personnel visit bases in the US of A they don't insist on driving on the left, so maybe the answer to my own question is that it is all down to arrogance by the guys and gals from over the other side of the pond.
Maybe they don't care a jot, sort of Trumpism on a wider scale?
If they must persist on acting daft they should create a solid infrastructure that forces drivers to follow the correct procedure, or maybe we should simply prevent movement on the ground in and out of the bases? A hard border between US and UK territory rather on the lines of "Check-Point Charlie", machine gun guards to take care of offenders
IGICB MM

[thirdcrank]

One change which has apparently be made since this case occurred is that HM Government has revoked the diplomatic immunity of the families of US personnel at this base which belatedly removes the anomaly created when the FCO didn't get it right years ago.

It may not prevent another crash connected with this base but the driver will not enjoy diplomatic immunity.

[pete75]

I don't claim any particular knowledge of the American legal system, especially the civil side. That Daily Mail article refers to the insurance company's submission that the case should be dismissed. I don't know what standing they might have in a court case unless they stood to make an insurance payout.

I don't know any more about the bereaved family's motives than I've read; and I suppose I'm confused by what I've read.

As I said above, the family has my sympathy in this terrible case. I do think that the American spy connotations are fuelling media interest in a way which may make it harder for them to reach any closure.

The insurance company will be defending the case. Obviously they stand to make a payout if they lose.

[pete75]

Morning all, But it still begs the question - "Why do the US Authorities insist on driving on the right hand side of the road within their bases?". Plain blooming stupid!
When our military personnel visit bases in the US of A they don't insist on driving on the left, so maybe the answer to my own question is that it is all down to arrogance by the guys and gals from over the other side of the pond.
Maybe they don't care a jot, sort of Trumpism on a wider scale?
If they must persist on acting daft they should create a solid infrastructure that forces drivers to follow the correct procedure, or maybe we should simply prevent movement on the ground in and out of the bases? A hard border between US and UK territory rather on the lines of "Check-Point Charlie", machine gun guards to take care of offenders
IGICB MM

The USAF bases aren't US territory. Strictly speaking they are RAF airfields and the station commander is an RAF officer. Presumably he can decide which side of the road people drive on in the base.

[Tangled Metal]

Morning all, But it still begs the question - "Why do the US Authorities insist on driving on the right hand side of the road within their bases?". Plain blooming stupid!
When our military personnel visit bases in the US of A they don't insist on driving on the left, so maybe the answer to my own question is that it is all down to arrogance by the guys and gals from over the other side of the pond.
Maybe they don't care a jot, sort of Trumpism on a wider scale?
If they must persist on acting daft they should create a solid infrastructure that forces drivers to follow the correct procedure, or maybe we should simply prevent movement on the ground in and out of the bases? A hard border between US and UK territory rather on the lines of "Check-Point Charlie", machine gun guards to take care of offenders
IGICB MM

The USAF bases aren't US territory. Strictly speaking they are RAF airfields and the station commander is an RAF officer. Presumably he can decide which side of the road people drive on in the base.

I also thought that we do not have the equivalent arrangement with USAF bases in USA so we do not know whether we would also have left hand traffic on such a base if it existed. It's simply not the case that the USA servicemen and women are visiting but they're a long term post with the usual levels of staff rotations. There's an argument that RHT helps to keep a feel of home for morale.

If it's a problem with no RHT on bases like this in the UK then it's a problem going to continental Europe for us Brits. Perhaps that argument could apply to us not being LHT now? Why can we get that transition right but us personnel can't? There's no reason which makes this case more about the individual than the transition being wrong.

[DaveReading]

Morning all, But it still begs the question - "Why do the US Authorities insist on driving on the right hand side of the road within their bases?". Plain blooming stupid!

Traffic on US bases in the UK drives on the left, as a couple of minutes with Google Maps will show.

[[XAP]Bob]

If it's a problem with no RHT on bases like this in the UK then it's a problem going to continental Europe for us Brits. Perhaps that argument could apply to us not being LHT now? Why can we get that transition right but us personnel can't? There's no reason which makes this case more about the individual than the transition being wrong.

It is a problem, it's not a mistake I make often, but after a few days in France I pulled off a dual carriageway style road and turned left onto a small road which had no markings at all (i.e. a genuinely small road).
It was only after several hundred yards that I realised that I was on the wrong side of the road, and that realisation was brought about by the oncoming car...

No harm, except probably some additional gesticulating by the driver of the other vehicle, since it was all at little country road appropriate speeds etc. Never got anywhere near an actual collision.

[thirdcrank]

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.99710 ... 312!8i6656

This seems to be the way out of RAF Croughton.

[merseymouth]

Hello again, If that image on Google Earth is as it was when the woman drove out she would appear to have beggar all defence for her actions?
So unless defects could be found with the steering of her vehicle, a dodgy dollop of oo nasty in the works (Navy Lark), she must be possessed of a defective moral compass! Otherwise why should a mature adult run away in so craven a fashion? MM

[Bonefishblues]

That's what the base looks/looked like, yes.

[Ben@Forest]

It was only after several hundred yards that I realised that I was on the wrong side of the road, and that realisation was brought about by the oncoming car...

No harm, except probably some additional gesticulating by the driver of the other vehicle, since it was all at little country road appropriate speeds etc. Never got anywhere near an actual collision.

Yeah I've done it twice, once in a car in Germany and once on a bike in France. It's the complete lack of other traffic or obvious signage that fools you - until you see the first car on the right side...