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Re: Diplomatic Immunity?

Posted: 29 Jan 2020, 11:37am
by merseymouth
Hi all, maybe we should take a leaf out of the U.S.'s Playbook? RENDITION! :D Works for them. TTFN MM

Re: Diplomatic Immunity?

Posted: 29 Jan 2020, 1:39pm
by Tangled Metal
Maybe we should move on and learn from it. The police around areas with chances of foreign diplomats should know more about the law regarding diplomatic immunity or have some legal expert to contact. Rather than reiterating a suspect who claimed immunity actually find out the accuracy but hold them as a flight risk until then.

Aiui there wasn't strictly immunity under the laws, rules for her. So if in custody she could have been prosecuted instead of trusting her to stick around like they did.

Just an idea.

Re: Diplomatic Immunity?

Posted: 29 Jan 2020, 1:43pm
by mattheus
Or learn from it AND pursue the current fugitive?

Re: Diplomatic Immunity?

Posted: 29 Jan 2020, 2:05pm
by Tangled Metal
That's a lost battle. A waste of money and possibly political capital to chase that one.

Re: Diplomatic Immunity?

Posted: 29 Jan 2020, 3:07pm
by NATURAL ANKLING
Hi,
Tangled Metal wrote:Maybe we should move on and learn from it. The police around areas with chances of foreign diplomats should know more about the law regarding diplomatic immunity or have some legal expert to contact. Rather than reiterating a suspect who claimed immunity actually find out the accuracy but hold them as a flight risk until then.

We wish :roll:
You have to remember that the police are recruited from joe public, they want them all to be degree'd nowadays, that wil change nothing, we all know the brightest spark at work may be a devil behind the wheel of a car.

https://listverse.com/2015/12/26/10-cas ... diplomats/

"Diplomats are representatives of their governments and are protected by diplomatic immunity, meaning that they usually can’t be prosecuted for crimes they may commit while stationed abroad. This is a reciprocal arrangement which serves to protect civil servants in foreign postings, but like any privilege, it can be abused. In some particularly egregious cases, even diplomatic immunity has its limits."

Re: Diplomatic Immunity?

Posted: 29 Jan 2020, 4:23pm
by merseymouth
Hi Tangled Metal, Had the police detained the woman in the first place they would have been subjected to extreme pressure for breaching section of the Conventions covering Diplomatic Immunity, dammed if they do, dammed if the don't!
U.S. compliance with the spirit of such conventions looks rather poor under the current administration, the egomaniac in charge don't fill me with confidence :lol: .
He keeps on talking through social media, using the orifice far from his face. MM

Re: Diplomatic Immunity?

Posted: 29 Jan 2020, 4:23pm
by pete75
Tangled Metal wrote:That's a lost battle. A waste of money and possibly political capital to chase that one.


That's the truth of the matter.

Re: Diplomatic Immunity?

Posted: 29 Jan 2020, 5:00pm
by Tangled Metal
Aiui both UK government and us state department admitted she wasn't actually eligible for the protection of diplomatic immunity. That's why with hindsight she could have been held. It's about getting this hindsight as foresight I guess.

Re: Diplomatic Immunity?

Posted: 29 Jan 2020, 5:11pm
by Mike Sales
It would not be a waste of time and money to try to ensure that this does not happen again.
It is common for those bereaved by RTCs to campaign, for example, for compulsory cycle helmets.
Vorpal has witnessed near misses. There is even video of one on the Sun website.
Is there clamour which I have missed for something to be done to stop careless American drivers making this particular mistake.
Different remedies have been mentioned in this thread.
It is surely possible to alert these drivers, to remind them of the change. Maybe they could even adopt UK traffic laws within their bases.

Re: Diplomatic Immunity?

Posted: 29 Jan 2020, 5:24pm
by merseymouth
Hello again, Lord Finchley springs to mind?
We should insist that all staff with Diplomatic Immunity be refused the right to drive in the course of their work. Employ persons without DI.
Should they insist on actually driving then Road Traffic Offences would be declared outside DI Status, hence personally liable for their own errors.
You know it makes sense? Stable Doors & Horses may spring to mind, but if it prevents further such incidents then it will be worth it. MM

Re: Diplomatic Immunity?

Posted: 29 Jan 2020, 5:44pm
by Mike Sales
It seems that there is rather more at stake than the death of a teenager.

In London, diplomats failed to pay 4,858 parking fines in last year alone, creating £477,499 of debt (£161,328 of which was later waived or paid). The real story here, however, is the congestion charge. Nearly £100m of congestion charges fees remain unpaid since it was introduced in 2003 – more than 10% of it from the US embassy.


In Ottawa, Canada, in January 2001, a senior Russian diplomat, Andrei Knyazev, lost control of his car on the way back from an ice-fishing party and mounted the pavement, killing one person and seriously injuring another. Knyazev insisted he had not been drinking but would not allow himself to be breathalysed, and the Russian authorities refused to waive his immunity. It subsequently emerged that Knyazev had been stopped for driving drunk twice before, but released. In the end he was prosecuted in Russia and sentenced to four years in prison.
This is not an isolated example. A Georgian diplomat, Gueorgui Makharadze, killed a 16-year-old girl while driving drunk in Washington DC in 1997, and was later prosecuted after his government waived his immunity. In 2009, Silviu Ionescu, a Romanian chargé d’affaires, drove into three pedestrians in Singapore, killing one. He returned to Romania, where he was convicted of manslaughter, and subsequently died in prison. Officials from the US alone have been involved in driving incidents that killed or seriously injured people in foreign cities in 1998 (Vladivostok, Russia), 2004 (Bucharest, Romania), 2011 (Lahore, Pakistan), 2013 (Islamabad, Pakistan) and again in 2013 (Nairobi, Kenya).


https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/sep/23/fine-diplomats-not-paying-parking-tickets

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/uk-owed-more-95m-congestion-charges-parking-fines-by-foreign-diplomats-1571869

Re: Diplomatic Immunity?

Posted: 29 Jan 2020, 5:59pm
by mercalia
Mike Sales wrote:It seems that there is rather more at stake than the death of a teenager.

In London, diplomats failed to pay 4,858 parking fines in last year alone, creating £477,499 of debt (£161,328 of which was later waived or paid). The real story here, however, is the congestion charge. Nearly £100m of congestion charges fees remain unpaid since it was introduced in 2003 – more than 10% of it from the US embassy.


In Ottawa, Canada, in January 2001, a senior Russian diplomat, Andrei Knyazev, lost control of his car on the way back from an ice-fishing party and mounted the pavement, killing one person and seriously injuring another. Knyazev insisted he had not been drinking but would not allow himself to be breathalysed, and the Russian authorities refused to waive his immunity. It subsequently emerged that Knyazev had been stopped for driving drunk twice before, but released. In the end he was prosecuted in Russia and sentenced to four years in prison.
This is not an isolated example. A Georgian diplomat, Gueorgui Makharadze, killed a 16-year-old girl while driving drunk in Washington DC in 1997, and was later prosecuted after his government waived his immunity. In 2009, Silviu Ionescu, a Romanian chargé d’affaires, drove into three pedestrians in Singapore, killing one. He returned to Romania, where he was convicted of manslaughter, and subsequently died in prison. Officials from the US alone have been involved in driving incidents that killed or seriously injured people in foreign cities in 1998 (Vladivostok, Russia), 2004 (Bucharest, Romania), 2011 (Lahore, Pakistan), 2013 (Islamabad, Pakistan) and again in 2013 (Nairobi, Kenya).


https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/sep/23/fine-diplomats-not-paying-parking-tickets

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/uk-owed-more-95m-congestion-charges-parking-fines-by-foreign-diplomats-1571869



here is an idea. People have diplomatic immunity, cars dont - confiscate the cars? esp for the congestion charge since its the car thats at fault not the person? I would like to see a diplomat stopped and told to walk home ( I wonder if they know how to walk more than 20 steps?) or to pay the fines? Thats a job I would love to do.

Re: Diplomatic Immunity?

Posted: 29 Jan 2020, 6:08pm
by Mike Sales
mercalia wrote:
here is an idea. People have diplomatic immunity, cars dont - confiscate the cars? esp for the congestion charge since its the car thats at fault not the person? I would like to see a diplomat stopped and told to walk home ( I wonder if they know how to walk more than 20 steps?) or to pay the fines? Thats a job I would love to do.


There have been partly successful tactics.


But there have been encouraging moments in cities around the world. In 2002, New York achieved a drastic reduction in unpaid fines by refusing to re-register any car with a large outstanding debt. (Since then, though, the fines have gradually crept back up.) The UK introduced a stricter policy in 1985 and in one year reduced the number of annual parking fines not paid by diplomats from 92,285 to 33,904.

Re: Diplomatic Immunity?

Posted: 14 Feb 2020, 10:07pm
by NATURAL ANKLING

Re: Diplomatic Immunity?

Posted: 15 Feb 2020, 8:36am
by 661-Pete
I can't understand why they don't just close that wretched airbase. What purpose does it serve? Or at the very least, send all the guys from across the pond, back home across the pond?