Diplomatic Immunity?

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kwackers
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Re: Diplomatic Immunity?

Postby kwackers » 14 Oct 2019, 12:54pm

mercalia wrote: this is getting way off topic.

Don't know about topics, but I ate a marathon the other day.

Hazelnuts or peanuts - that's the question.

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661-Pete
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Re: Diplomatic Immunity?

Postby 661-Pete » 14 Oct 2019, 1:13pm

mercalia wrote:
Vorpal wrote:
kwackers wrote:Can you slaughter a dead animal? :lol:

:lol: :lol: no, probably not. But sometimes stunning actually kills the animal, which is not permitted according to Islamic law.


this is getting way off topic.
Quite. Maybe all the posts have the same message though: the creeping subservience of this country towards American standards and practices....?
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Diplomatic Immunity?

Postby Tangled Metal » 14 Oct 2019, 1:43pm

Halal means killed without stunning across the Muslim countries but in more secular nations there's a fudge that kind of ignores stunning.

Personally I buy our meat from Booths supermarkets. I think but don't know for sure that their meat isn't Halal. Bear in mind all the big supermarket chains actually only supply Halal. It's not advertised but almost all abattoir companies supply Halal and it's easier to keep the one system going.

merseymouth
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Re: Diplomatic Immunity?

Postby merseymouth » 14 Oct 2019, 5:33pm

Hi all, Been away for a few days, so nly just caught up with thread drift, which I'm often accused of :oops: .
But as I now read things the errant US lady can now be stunned "Halal" or "Kosher" style, chlorinated and flown back to the UK? :shock: .
But first she must have the process overseen by religious leader! Abu Hamza can do the Halal part then wash his hands of the entire process :oops: :oops: :oops: :lol: . TTFN MM

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661-Pete
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Re: Diplomatic Immunity?

Postby 661-Pete » 14 Oct 2019, 9:04pm

Tangled Metal wrote:Bear in mind all the big supermarket chains actually only supply Halal.
Sorry, but that's nonsense (how would you define Halal pork? :shock: ). Where did you pick up this canard from, could it have been an Islamophobic website?

It is true that all New Zealand lamb supplied to the UK is Halal, because NZ abattoirs are all geared up to supply both the Halal and non-Halal market, and they found it simpler to make all their output Halal. Bear in mind that this meat is still pre-stunned. The only difference, as far as I know, is that Halal meat is blessed by an Imam before slaughter.

But other meats are mostly non-Halal. Unless specifically labelled as such.
Suppose that this room is a lift. The support breaks and down we go with ever-increasing velocity.
Let us pass the time by performing physical experiments...
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Bonefishblues
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Re: Diplomatic Immunity?

Postby Bonefishblues » 14 Oct 2019, 9:19pm

661-Pete wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Bear in mind all the big supermarket chains actually only supply Halal.
Sorry, but that's nonsense (how would you define Halal pork? :shock: ). Where did you pick up this canard from, could it have been an Islamophobic website?

It is true that all New Zealand lamb supplied to the UK is Halal, because NZ abattoirs are all geared up to supply both the Halal and non-Halal market, and they found it simpler to make all their output Halal. Bear in mind that this meat is still pre-stunned. The only difference, as far as I know, is that Halal meat is blessed by an Imam before slaughter.

But other meats are mostly non-Halal. Unless specifically labelled as such.

Halal duck now is it? :wink:

Tangled Metal
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Re: Diplomatic Immunity?

Postby Tangled Metal » 14 Oct 2019, 9:51pm

661-Pete wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:Bear in mind all the big supermarket chains actually only supply Halal.
Sorry, but that's nonsense (how would you define Halal pork? :shock: ). Where did you pick up this canard from, could it have been an Islamophobic website?

It is true that all New Zealand lamb supplied to the UK is Halal, because NZ abattoirs are all geared up to supply both the Halal and non-Halal market, and they found it simpler to make all their output Halal. Bear in mind that this meat is still pre-stunned. The only difference, as far as I know, is that Halal meat is blessed by an Imam before slaughter.

But other meats are mostly non-Halal. Unless specifically labelled as such.

Oh now you're being picky over every single words. I think it's a universally known fact that muslims don't eat pork. Do I really have to spell that out?

Ok let me make it clear, all meat that muslims can eat is based on animals slaughtered according to one set if accepted halal procedures where the animal is stunned first before undergoing the rest of the halal slaughter process.

Actually secondhand from someone from a farming background who's family contracts include a farmer with an abattoir supplying into a range if sources. Locally there was an outcry when it got out that he'd been slaughtering according to Halal rules for many years. The meat from animals he slaughtered ended up in supermarkets apparently. He had no qualms over this. His view was if not him it would be others.

Personally I have no issue with the variety of Halal that stuns first. And if the part above that i put in italics is meant to imply I'm islamophobic you're dead wrong. I'm an atheist but I have never discriminated against religion. Indeed being an engineer with an interest in Greek civilisation and science I deeply respect Islam for the way it's attitude to other beliefs and knowledge at one time led to vast collections of written work that got destroyed in Christian Europe.

Despite what many atheists say about how bad religion is I still think there's a lot of good in all main religions even if I don't believe in them.

Mike Sales
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Re: Diplomatic Immunity?

Postby Mike Sales » 14 Oct 2019, 9:55pm

Are not halal and kosher much the same?

Oldjohnw
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Re: Diplomatic Immunity?

Postby Oldjohnw » 15 Oct 2019, 12:14am

Killing of animals without first stunning was banned throughout the EU in 1979.

A curious thing that kosher has never been objected to, even though largely the same.
John

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Psamathe
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Re: Diplomatic Immunity?

Postby Psamathe » 15 Oct 2019, 11:04am

Vorpal wrote:
landsurfer wrote:OK so we're all ok with Halal butchery ?????
As long as the animals don't smell of chlorine ???


I don't eat meat. I'd rather that no, or at least many fewer animals died to feed humans, but most Halal slaughter includes stunning the animals prior to slaughter. To be Halal, means the animal must be alive and healthy when slaughtered.

Can being stunned prior to having its throat cut really considered "healthy". I would say as soon as significant numbers of electrons start pouring into its nervous system it has moved into a decidedly "unhealthy" state. But to a degree I am quibbling over works.

But then what is the difference between Halal and routine slaughter. Is non-halal livestock diseased? I'd have hoped that all animals slaughtered for human consumption would be healthy and as others have said, can you slaughter an animal that is not alive.

Ian

Psamathe
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Re: Diplomatic Immunity?

Postby Psamathe » 15 Oct 2019, 11:07am

Oldjohnw wrote:Killing of animals without first stunning was banned throughout the EU in 1979......

Maybe the UK is an exception then as UK Gov's own regulations
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/halal-and-kosher-slaughter wrote:You must stun all animals before you slaughter them unless an animal is being religiously slaughtered for halal or kosher meat.


Ian

Psamathe
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Re: Diplomatic Immunity?

Postby Psamathe » 15 Oct 2019, 11:10am

I wonder if the aspects of the rules on Kosher and Halal slaughter constitutes religious discrimination. Why can Halal slaughter only be carried out by a Muslim (and Kosher slaughter only carried out by a Jew). I feel discriminated against as I'm an atheist and I (probably) feel discriminated against when I'm legally forbidden to carry out such slaughter.

Ian

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Re: Diplomatic Immunity?

Postby Vorpal » 15 Oct 2019, 11:57am

Psamathe wrote:
Can being stunned prior to having its throat cut really considered "healthy". I would say as soon as significant numbers of electrons start pouring into its nervous system it has moved into a decidedly "unhealthy" state. But to a degree I am quibbling over works.
this is subject to debate amongst Muslims, so I don't think i can reasonably provide an answer.
Psamathe wrote:But then what is the difference between Halal and routine slaughter. Is non-halal livestock diseased? I'd have hoped that all animals slaughtered for human consumption would be healthy and as others have said, can you slaughter an animal that is not alive.
Ian

Livestock with notifiable illnesses cannot be used for meat, but they certainly can if they are unhealthy in many other ways. The rules say that sick animals should be prioritised, and if they cannot walk, they should slaughtered in situ.

To be Halal, it has to be slaughtered using only tools that were prepared according to Islamic law, and the name of God must be invoked.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

Oldjohnw
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Re: Diplomatic Immunity?

Postby Oldjohnw » 15 Oct 2019, 1:45pm

Psamathe wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:Killing of animals without first stunning was banned throughout the EU in 1979......

Maybe the UK is an exception then as UK Gov's own regulations
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/halal-and-kosher-slaughter wrote:You must stun all animals before you slaughter them unless an animal is being religiously slaughtered for halal or kosher meat.


Ian


I don't think that is necessarily a contradiction. Religious slaughter is exempted. The rest, even when Halal but for wider use, is halal to the extent that it is blessed. Mon Muslims - or Jews - will not meet the problem.
John

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merseymouth
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Re: Diplomatic Immunity?

Postby merseymouth » 15 Oct 2019, 4:34pm

Hi again all, Maybe we should follow the Douglas Adams route, "The Restaurant at the End of he Universe"? "Time to meet the meat!".
Where the animal offers various sections of itself for eating. "My liver is very tasty?".
Would one want to eat an animal that didn't want to be eaten or one that offered itself freely?"!
Also how many followers of Judaism enjoy a "White Steak", which is a euphemism for a nice gammon steak? More common amongst Progressive Jews than one would envisage, not fictional. TTFN MM

* As the originator of this thread I can say with certainty that drift has occurred!