The right way to handle the Scottish Independence?

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softlips
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Re: The right way to handle the Scottish Independence?

Post by softlips »

al_yrpal wrote:Good luck to the Scots with Independence. I believe they face a much bigger problem than we have with untangling Brexit. They will wrangle with it for the next 50 years.

I believe just leaving the EU without any deal will enable the UK to rebuild their relationship with Europe from the ground up in a very clean and unpressurised way. Europes interests in a decent relationship are just like ours. We will both cooperate. As it is now its a fractious relationship based on attempts to create divisions and bullying.

Al



Nail on head :D
merseymouth
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Re: The right way to handle the Scottish Independence?

Post by merseymouth »

Morning all, Can I offer a little taster for the Scottish people?
Let us declare a trial period of say one month, when they sample the possible life after a divorce.
The border between our two countries would be fully manned with all that that would entail. Passport Controls, Customs Duty Inspections, Immigration Control, need I go on?
The Revenue men would need to be armed to cope with the re-introduced Reiver Bands! The 25% Levy on whisky that Trump is proposing might be surpassed, that would certainly raise a moan!
I think even as short a period as four weeks would prove enlightening, with a constantly manned border to counter "People Smuggling", maybe on the lines of the East German model? (Very tongue in cheek folks :lol: )
What would the "Wee Terror" Nicola think of that?? IGICB MM
mercalia
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Re: The right way to handle the Scottish Independence?

Post by mercalia »

merseymouth wrote:Morning all, Can I offer a little taster for the Scottish people?
Let us declare a trial period of say one month, when they sample the possible life after a divorce.
The border between our two countries would be fully manned with all that that would entail. Passport Controls, Customs Duty Inspections, Immigration Control, need I go on?
The Revenue men would need to be armed to cope with the re-introduced Reiver Bands! The 25% Levy on whisky that Trump is proposing might be surpassed, that would certainly raise a moan!
I think even as short a period as four weeks would prove enlightening, with a constantly manned border to counter "People Smuggling", maybe on the lines of the East German model? (Very tongue in cheek folks :lol: )
What would the "Wee Terror" Nicola think of that?? IGICB MM


and build a new Hadrians Wall to keep the Scots out? :wink:
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Paulatic
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Re: The right way to handle the Scottish Independence?

Post by Paulatic »

merseymouth wrote:Morning all, Can I offer a little taster for the Scottish people?
Let us declare a trial period of say one month, when they sample the possible life after a divorce.
The border between our two countries would be fully manned with all that that would entail. Passport Controls, Customs Duty Inspections, Immigration Control, need I go on?
The Revenue men would need to be armed to cope with the re-introduced Reiver Bands! The 25% Levy on whisky that Trump is proposing might be surpassed, that would certainly raise a moan!
I think even as short a period as four weeks would prove enlightening, with a constantly manned border to counter "People Smuggling", maybe on the lines of the East German model? (Very tongue in cheek folks :lol: )
What would the "Wee Terror" Nicola think of that?? IGICB MM

:lol: :lol: No need to worry about any of that detail the supporters of brexit have taught us that. :)
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horizon
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Re: The right way to handle the Scotish Independance?

Post by horizon »

pwa wrote:We have have had a lot of soul searching about our own nation (UK) in recent years, but one thing we can all be very proud of is that if a part of the UK displays signs that it may want independence, it will at some point be given a vote on the matter. Spain's shameful response to calls for a vote on Catalan independence shows the opposite approach.

Normally I would say that if, as is the case in Scotland, there has been an independence vote not all that long ago, the matter should be put to bed for twenty years so folk can get on with life. But I accept that the potential changes resultant from the Brexit vote mean that the result of the last Scottish independence vote cannot decently be said to bind Scotland after leaving the EU. Under these exceptional circumstances another independence referendum would be merited, if demand for it persists.


Do you know, I agree with every word of that. :)
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Oldjohnw
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Re: The right way to handle the Scottish Independence?

Post by Oldjohnw »

Today Johnson gave a 'cast iron guarantee' that there will not be another referendum.

Sort of no ifs, no buts, dead in ditch eat my tie sort of thing.

So I guess that, should he win the election, we can look forward to a Scottish independence referendum.
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Paulatic
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Re: The right way to handle the Scottish Independence?

Post by Paulatic »

That’ll be a bit like the cast iron guarantee the Tories gave in Indyref1 Vote NO to guarantee staying in Eu. :lol:
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Tangled Metal
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Re: The right way to handle the Scottish Independence?

Post by Tangled Metal »

Hadrian's wall ranges from 1 to about 70 miles from the Scottish border. No land grabs with independence please! :D
merseymouth
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Re: The right way to handle the Scottish Independence?

Post by merseymouth »

Morning all, To fill in he void left by the Westminster Gasworks Closure I've been watching the coverage from Holyrood. That temple of virtue that Ms Sturgeon rules, so modern with none of the historic baggage of the London site.
Yes, they have seats for all, microphones to facilitate clarity, no Mr Speaker (Boo), but they do have a "Presiding Officer" and the lady in the chair that I saw is worse than Bercow, I kid you not! Strictly timed debate, even when it is clear that the speaker has hit on an area of contention that has great worth yet poorly specified in the legislation in question!!!
The Chair was totally time fixated, debate ended as she cut off the microphone.
The issue in question as I watched was the ferries for the Highlands & Islands, a real arterial route for everything to keep communities functioning.
It all matters, reliability, availability, access, cost, forward planning, it was clearly a Brexit in local form? The perfect land the Ms Sturgeon eulogises about isn't quite what she would portray, the natives are restless.
So can she be certain that if she actually got a second Referendum could she win the day? The Jury is out. IGICB MM
Polisman
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Re: The right way to handle the Scottish Independence?

Post by Polisman »

mercalia wrote:
merseymouth wrote:Morning all, Can I offer a little taster for the Scottish people?
Let us declare a trial period of say one month, when they sample the possible life after a divorce.
The border between our two countries would be fully manned with all that that would entail. Passport Controls, Customs Duty Inspections, Immigration Control, need I go on?
The Revenue men would need to be armed to cope with the re-introduced Reiver Bands! The 25% Levy on whisky that Trump is proposing might be surpassed, that would certainly raise a moan!
I think even as short a period as four weeks would prove enlightening, with a constantly manned border to counter "People Smuggling", maybe on the lines of the East German model? (Very tongue in cheek folks :lol: )
What would the "Wee Terror" Nicola think of that?? IGICB MM


and build a new Hadrians Wall to keep the Scots out? :wink:


Build a new wall to stop the desperate English trying to get IN

When Scotland leaves the rUK, and the enormity of the shambles of Brexit finally sinks in, England will turn itself inside out, it'll be like the Berlin Wall all over again. Electric fence and face detection at the border? Probably...
Cyril Haearn
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Re: The right way to handle the Scottish Independence?

Post by Cyril Haearn »

The Berlin Wall came down 30 years ago tomorrow, a lot of remembering going on :D
Worth looking for parallels?
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Tangled Metal
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Re: The right way to handle the Scottish Independence?

Post by Tangled Metal »

Let's just get Brexit done or abandoned. Don't care which now.

Then let's move on to the Scottish version of Brexit. Let's sit back as Scotland cause a generational step back economically speaking before also coming good some time in the future.

Seriously, anyone really think Scottish independence will be significantly easier to put in place and less painful than Brexit? Are the nats simply looking at it like the leave campaign looked at Brexit?
Cyril Haearn
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Re: The right way to handle the Scottish Independence?

Post by Cyril Haearn »

Right again TM, Scotland negotiating to leave the Union would be chaos :?

But maybe the German federal constitution could be copied? 16 regional parliaments without much real power, just identity
The rich ones help the poor ones :wink:
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Tangled Metal
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Re: The right way to handle the Scottish Independence?

Post by Tangled Metal »

Only right now? You think rUK would not do an EU trick on Scotland? Give them more pain than necessary just to stop the other nations leaving?

Federalism was always one of my preferences. Either complete federal system on an equal basis between regions of England, Wales, northern Ireland and Scotland. Or complete unification with one set of laws, justice system and representation based around houses of parliament. I never liked historical Scottish laws in a union and thought unequal devolution unfair.

I have always had my own views and opinions. Not many agree with them all.
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Paulatic
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Re: The right way to handle the Scottish Independence?

Post by Paulatic »

merseymouth wrote:So can she be certain that if she actually got a second Referendum could she win the day? The Jury is out. IGICB MM

At least she is willing to find out. I’ve not heard many Brexiters keen on another referendum.

Tangled Metal wrote:... let's move on to the Scottish version of Brexit. Let's sit back as Scotland cause a generational step back economically speaking before also coming good some time in the future.

Seriously, anyone really think Scottish independence will be significantly easier to put in place and less painful than Brexit? Are the nats simply looking at it like the leave campaign looked at Brexit?


I think it’s totally different. Do you remember the faces of Gove and Johnson when they won? They were feeling sick because they hadn’t a clue what the decision meant and what they were going to do about it. Figures plucked out of the air and written on a bus. Sound bites of how great they thought Britain was in the old days.
Imagine now the faces of SNP politicians if there was a Yes vote announced. They’d be smiling and happy and after years of planning will know exactly what they expect the split to look like. WM might not initially agree but at least there will be solid ground to work from. Unlike Brexit where it meant Brexit and years on they still don’t know what it means.

Tangled Metal wrote:Only right now? You think rUK would not do an EU trick on Scotland? Give them more pain than necessary just to stop the other nations leaving?

Federalism was always one of my preferences. Either complete federal system on an equal basis between regions of England, Wales, northern Ireland and Scotland. Or complete unification with one set of laws, justice system and representation based around houses of parliament. I never liked historical Scottish laws in a union and thought unequal devolution unfair.
l.

I don’t agree the EU is tricking UK.
A complete federal system on an equal basis would be good as would, I think, PR. People would feel represented hopefully.
So one set of laws for the Union that’ll be the Scottish ones then? No I thought not :D
I assume you believe an unequal devolution is because there isn’t devolution throughout the UK. Apologies if I got that wrong. The original plan, AIB, was to roll it out through England. Apathy put an end to that.
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