Booze - minimum price?

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Mick F
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Re: Booze - minimum price?

Postby Mick F » 18 Oct 2019, 9:25am

Ok Ok Ok.
I used the wrong word.
It obviously isn't a tax in the true sense of the word.

The issue is though, when we pay purchase tax, we don't consider it at all. It's part of the overall price and we MUST pay it.
If booze has an elevated price over the border, it may as well be a tax there.
It makes no difference what you call it, but there's a premium to pay like VAT is a premium.

Lower earners pay a larger percentage of their income on purchase tax than richer people.
Regressive ............... call it tax or not ............... it's still regressive.
Mick F. Cornwall

peetee
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Re: Booze - minimum price?

Postby peetee » 18 Oct 2019, 9:48am

Last time I was in Glasgow there were people on Queen Street station promoting healthy eating by handing out free bananas. I think we were the only takers but we made the most of their generosity!
These promotions and initiatives make a lot of sense when you look at the balance of spending in most people's shopping trolleys. Never seen anything local to me though.
I have beer in the fridge nearly every day but only because it's cheaper to buy in bulk but it's only consumed at the weekend and more that a couple and I am out for the count. :lol:
Tax it in England? Good plan.
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Mick F
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Re: Booze - minimum price?

Postby Mick F » 18 Oct 2019, 10:04am

Rhetorical questions. :wink:

Should we increase VAT on consumables that the poorer end of society consume?
Should we not scrap VAT and increase income tax to compensate the exchequer instead?


Personally, I feel that VAT and the like are an awful way of raising taxes.
Mick F. Cornwall

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Sweep
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Re: Booze - minimum price?

Postby Sweep » 18 Oct 2019, 10:11am

peetee wrote:Last time I was in Glasgow there were people on Queen Street station promoting healthy eating by handing out free bananas. I think we were the only takers but we made the most of their generosity!
These promotions and initiatives make a lot of sense when you look at the balance of spending in most people's shopping trolleys. Never seen anything local to me though.
I have beer in the fridge nearly every day but only because it's cheaper to buy in bulk but it's only consumed at the weekend and more that a couple and I am out for the count. :lol:
Tax it in England? Good plan.

Can i tax the contents of your fridge?
I have my own views on what you should and should not be consuming.
I will of course take into account your ability to pay/how much i can get out of you.
Sweep

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Re: Booze - minimum price?

Postby Oldjohnw » 18 Oct 2019, 10:26am

Mick F wrote:Rhetorical questions. :wink:

Should we increase VAT on consumables that the poorer end of society consume?
Should we not scrap VAT and increase income tax to compensate the exchequer instead?


Personally, I feel that VAT and the like are an awful way of raising taxes.


Agree. The only fair and proportional tax. Although there can be reasons to tax some luxury items: cars, yachts, more than one long haul flight, second honest(given the shortage of first homes).
John

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Re: Booze - minimum price?

Postby PH » 18 Oct 2019, 10:49am

Mick F wrote:Ok Ok Ok.
I used the wrong word.
It obviously isn't a tax in the true sense of the word.

The issue is though, when we pay purchase tax, we don't consider it at all. It's part of the overall price and we MUST pay it.
If booze has an elevated price over the border, it may as well be a tax there.
It makes no difference what you call it, but there's a premium to pay like VAT is a premium.

Lower earners pay a larger percentage of their income on purchase tax than richer people.
Regressive ............... call it tax or not ............... it's still regressive.

Lots of things are price controlled, up and down, though I can't think of anything else that has a minimum pricing.
A lot of the alcohol that fell foul of the minimum price was supermarket own brand, in some cases being sold as a loss leader. You may think it OK for the free market to rule, I disagree. The availability of cheap alcohol has demonstrably harmful consequences for some, this has gone a little way to reducing this.
If it had been a tax, it couldn't have been applied to a price point, the result would have been a price increase in all alcohol being sold for profit, without any restriction on the supermarkets using it as an enticement. I know what you meant and the late night, home from the pub, :roll: was rude of me, apologies, but it is a meaningful distinction.

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Re: Booze - minimum price?

Postby Postboxer » 5 Nov 2019, 9:38am

What happens when minimum prices per unit are introduced, does the Tesco Value lager go up in price, along with every price point above it, or do they just stop selling the cheaper products until you reach the product that was already being sold at the price per unit that has been introduced.

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Re: Booze - minimum price?

Postby mjr » 5 Nov 2019, 11:25am

rjb wrote:Is this in the right thread?
or should it go in the brexit one.
You can all afford to drown your sorrows. :lol:

Image

Blimey. Where's Ruddles brewed then? I thought it was English. Why don't they have to label its non-EU origin?
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Re: Booze - minimum price?

Postby mjr » 5 Nov 2019, 11:36am

Postboxer wrote:What happens when minimum prices per unit are introduced, does the Tesco Value lager go up in price, along with every price point above it, or do they just stop selling the cheaper products until you reach the product that was already being sold at the price per unit that has been introduced.

It doesn't matter much what happens to 2% lagers like that. The problem lager drinkers are on the 8+% filth. While we don't want to outlaw triples, wilds and other fine beers served in small measures, a simple move to discourage people simply moving up the % scale is probably a very good thing.

Introduction is the difficult thing. While it may stop some alcoholics worsening, at first many existing alcoholics are likely to simply pay the price and ruin themselves and any dependants. Has that happened in Scotland? Or did it mainly hasten what was likely to happen eventually anyway?
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Re: Booze - minimum price?

Postby pliptrot » 5 Nov 2019, 12:21pm

mjr wrote:
rjb wrote:Is this in the right thread?
or should it go in the brexit one.
You can all afford to drown your sorrows. :lol:

Image

Blimey. Where's Ruddles brewed then? I thought it was English. Why don't they have to label its non-EU origin?


That's what struck me - this is nonsensical, like most arguments that support Brexit. I imagine some ingredients are imported, but from outside the EU? Any tariff reduction will mean lower Government revenues, which of course will mean even lower spending on the NHS, et al.. Were those deficiencies to be redressed via taxation, then perhaps there is some sense in the argument. But it never is - no Government-in-waiting would have the courage to propose tax increases, and -of course- any attempt to tax wealth will be even more vociferously resisted, often by those who will be least affected. We should have a land tax in this country, but we pay subsidies to land-owners instead. That welfare bill is enormous, and could be one of the things to benefit the nation -by stopping it-if we were to leave the EU. But that won't happen, naturally, because the 1% who own 98% have all the levers of power. Corbyn is a Marxist? I hope so.

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Re: Booze - minimum price?

Postby philvantwo » 5 Nov 2019, 1:35pm

In Tenerife now, 1 litre bottle of Grants is ten euros.....
shall I bring Mick F a bottle back?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
[color=#FF0000][/color]

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Re: Booze - minimum price?

Postby irc » 5 Nov 2019, 4:06pm

Postboxer wrote:What happens when minimum prices per unit are introduced, does the Tesco Value lager go up in price, along with every price point above it, or do they just stop selling the cheaper products until you reach the product that was already being sold at the price per unit that has been introduced.


Own brand whisky has largely disappeared. Why buy Tesco own brand whisky when Grouse is the same price?

Cross border booze trips not really worth it at 50p a unit. THere is a review built into the law. If the unit price was increased to 60p I'd be driving to Carlisle. Currently saving £4 or £5 on a 1l bottle of spirits isn't worth the trip. A 220 mile round trip would be £30 in fuel plus general wear on the car and a 5hr round trip. Even buying 20l and saving £100 before fuel etc isn't woth the time and effort. At 60p possibly.

I was in Northumberland on holiday and spent £100 in Berwick on the way home. A bit less tax and shop turnover in Scotland.

At 50p I don't think it will have much effect. I mostly drink IPAs and malt whiskys not affected by the 50p minimum anyway. Problem drinkers will spend what they need to. Now on vodka rather than cheap strong cider. Poorer moderate drinkers will be slightly poorer. Shops will be a bit richer as the extra cost goes mainly to them apart from the extra VAT.

AS for whether it worked - reducing alchol consumption and alchol related deaths? Well not yet. Alcohol off sales increased in the first 9 months after the law.

boozer2.jpg


https://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.co ... date=false

Alchol related deaths up 1.4%

https://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.co ... tland.html

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Mick F
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Re: Booze - minimum price?

Postby Mick F » 6 Nov 2019, 10:02am

philvantwo wrote:In Tenerife now, 1 litre bottle of Grants is ten euros.....
shall I bring Mick F a bottle back?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
You can drink it! :lol:
Horrid stuff.
Mick F. Cornwall

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Re: Booze - minimum price?

Postby dodger » 6 Nov 2019, 4:01pm

It's NOvember here. No alcohol at all, so at the moment I don't care!
It's probably an age thing, but I find these days that I can't drink much. Never have been a real toper. 1 pint and I can feel it sloshing around and now, as the dreaded prostate affects. too much beer = too many loo visits.
1 glass of wine is fine, or a nice barley wine.

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Re: Booze - minimum price?

Postby Tinnishill » 6 Nov 2019, 6:35pm

Agitate, educate, organise.