Savage machines

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brynpoeth
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Re: Savage machines

Postby brynpoeth » 20 Oct 2019, 8:48pm

Diolch
The next question to Cugel and Ben, what is Short Roatation Forestry? How many years may the trees in Brechfashire grow before being slaughtered? What sorts of chemicals are used as fertiliser?

I think pellets from Brechfa trees are an awful example of using, destroying energy, chopping up the trees, carting them back and forth..

Cugel, if you want a Savage Machine look at the monsters still used in open-cast coal mining :?
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Cugel
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Re: Savage machines

Postby Cugel » 20 Oct 2019, 9:59pm

brynpoeth wrote:Diolch
The next question to Cugel and Ben, what is Short Roatation Forestry? How many years may the trees in Brechfashire grow before being slaughtered? What sorts of chemicals are used as fertiliser?

I think pellets from Brechfa trees are an awful example of using, destroying energy, chopping up the trees, carting them back and forth..

Cugel, if you want a Savage Machine look at the monsters still used in open-cast coal mining :?


Whilst lacking a fully scientific, economic or other formalised justification of the opinion I'll nevertheless suggest that growing softwood primarily for fuel seems a poor way to go in this day and age, since there are other renewables that seem a lot less dirty in terms of the technology needed to harvest and the by-products of their use as an energy source. Making solar panels or windmills consumes some stuff, mind. But after the initial construction and implementation, the energy produced is very cheap-to-free and the associated pollution is very low. Burning wood produces many pollutants.

But if the forests were used to grow various hardwoods instead, what would they be used for in this day and age? We used to make vast quantities of all sorts of items of utility from wood - until plastics, concretes and other modern materials took the place of timber in many domains. But trees have additional uses besides as a material, these days: leisure backdrop; CO2 absorbers. And if there was felling to produce, say, lovely oak beams and planks to build timber frame houses with .... the brash (branches, tree tops et al) could still be used as fuel if needed. Or perhaps be ground up for a better quality MDF!

There's some fabulous oak houses and other structures being made these days.

https://www.welshoakframe.com/

Cugel

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Cugel
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Re: Savage machines

Postby Cugel » 22 Oct 2019, 1:35pm

Logging with savage machines tends to leave swathes of machine-tracks that look like a path of destruction. The machines also churn up loadsa mud on the forest tracks.
logging operations-2.jpg
A logging machine inroad for thinning.

logging operations-7.jpg
Clear-felled area (leaving the deciduous trees)

logging operations-6.jpg
Log stacks awaiting collection

logging operations-9.jpg
The logger clears brash


But it's surprising how quickly the forest grows back. (More photos of forest-reclaimed logging "avenues" after the next collie walk or two). The brash and mud disappear under swathes of moss and eventually other kinds of growths, from bilberry to heather.

Talking to a couple of forestry rangers today, they tell me that Brechfa is being thinned from one end to the other this year but will then be left without logging for five years, to allow the remaining trees to put on a growth spurt now that they have less competition for soil, water and light. They also tell me that clear-felled areas are still replanted by hand rather than machine - very hard work indeed, as the planting holes must be made through the brash into very flinty soils.

The replantings are mostly more softwood but every track, as well as various designated areas, are now planted with a variety of native deciduous species. There's also a "forest garden" where many different kinds of trees have been planted. As time goes on, their seeds are naturally distributed by bird, beast and wind so that examples of these forest garden trees pop up all over Brechfa and beyond.

pwa
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Re: Savage machines

Postby pwa » 22 Oct 2019, 4:12pm

I have felled mature conifers and processed the timber using a chainsaw, a few hand tools and brute force, and it is a pig of a job. It is physically hard work, with trip hazards and slippery ground everywhere, midges making a meal out of you, and regular halts to proceedings to refuel and sharpen the saw. These days that is reserved for tricky little nooks and corners that the big machines cannot safely get to.

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Cugel
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Re: Savage machines

Postby Cugel » 30 Oct 2019, 1:13pm

A final post from moi in this thread. A few pics; a small but still savage machine and a couple showing the recovering forest following it's savaging.

20190427_102022.jpg
A mid-sized tree trunk grabber

A small tree eater-3.jpg
A small but still savage tree ravasher

New forest growth-2.jpg
A logger ingress now grown green again

New forest growth-4.jpg
New plantings with honey fungus eating an old trunk stump.

New forest growth-3.jpg
More new plantings


Talking to two of the lads from Natural Resources Wales, found inspecting the latest logging activity, they told me that the whole of Brechfa is being thinned this year, prior to a five year hiatus during which the forest will be left to recover and the remaining trees grow large.There's also more native deciduous species being planted, along all the forest track sides but also in various smaller clear-felled areas.

At present the timber is mostly used for fuel - turned into wood pellets for modern wood-burners. But it seems likely that this use of softwood will diminish as renewable energy sources increase and there's more opposition to the high pollution caused by large numbers of woodburners. What will Brechfa Forest become over the next 20 or 30 years then? And what effect will serious climate change have (other than making everything grow faster but also allowing in new plant diseases)?

Cugel

Tangled Metal
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Re: Savage machines

Postby Tangled Metal » 30 Oct 2019, 2:15pm

Mining and mineral processing machines are truly savage. Ever looked down the throat of a jaw crusher at work? T- rex and mega shark critter of old bite like little girlie types (excuse sexist description).

Various other machinery to. A rotary oven in the cement manufacture for example. Hot, hot, hot! And that's underneath listening to the feed materials rolling around on their journey up the oven slope while being tumbled over and over by the rotary action.

Or various ball mills with heavy balls smashing rock to b smithereens. Or various other mills that use almost medieval b weighted flails.

No, mineral processing uses the best savage machines. That's not including mining machines btw. Add them in you're visiting a kind of steampunk dystopian world of machinery capable of serious savagery to the recipients of their attentions.

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Cugel
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Re: Savage machines

Postby Cugel » 30 Oct 2019, 3:57pm

Tangled Metal wrote:Mining and mineral processing machines are truly savage. Ever looked down the throat of a jaw crusher at work? T- rex and mega shark critter of old bite like little girlie types (excuse sexist description).

Various other machinery to. A rotary oven in the cement manufacture for example. Hot, hot, hot! And that's underneath listening to the feed materials rolling around on their journey up the oven slope while being tumbled over and over by the rotary action.

Or various ball mills with heavy balls smashing rock to b smithereens. Or various other mills that use almost medieval b weighted flails.

No, mineral processing uses the best savage machines. That's not including mining machines btw. Add them in you're visiting a kind of steampunk dystopian world of machinery capable of serious savagery to the recipients of their attentions.


Pickshas required; or even links to movies. Are there some of such savage machines culling humans? I want to show those to 100%. :-)

Cugel, wary of planer-thicknessers and 3HP routers.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Savage machines

Postby Tangled Metal » 30 Oct 2019, 5:11pm

https://youtu.be/s3F1pEzLQDc
https://youtu.be/fdhJrJkLxSs

https://youtu.be/AG5yl_JrWqk

Just a selection found quickly. Not the best.

Not very savage looking, but up close and in person they're impressive. Well I think so anyway.