Whats wrong with Pacer trains?

[Cyril Haearn]

If the curves are too tight on the Gunnislake branch it might be best to upgrade to narrow gauge
No more through coaches from Paddington then, mind

[Mick F]

It used to be a narrow-gauge mineral line.
When it was converted to standard gauge at the turn of the 20th century, they altered the curves and moved a bridge or two.

You cannot get an intercity type train up the line at all.

Tamar Valley line starts (these days) from Plymouth, but before 1968, the line from Plymouth went via Bere Alston and up through Tavistock to Okehampton and thence to London. The trackbed is still wide enough and the curves shallow enough to get big steam locomotives up as far as Bere Alston.

From there, these days, the trains reverse and go down the steep hill to Calstock, and then up the steep hill to Gunnislake.

[colin54]

I often take a Pacer from Southport to Burscough Bridge/Parbold.The line curves out from Southport Station and also has the old expansion gaps in the rails for some reason. The train travels very slowly over this section, so as well as the horrible circular saw type noise from the wheels you also get the bangs from the rail joints.

Someone has made a youtube video of this, the journey starts at about 4 minutes in and has the most
impressive wheel screech at about 6min.Turn loud up for the full effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvBWRRqmRwQ&t=568s

[DNC123]

I often take a Pacer from Southport to Burscough Bridge/Parbold.The line curves out from Southport Station and also has the old expansion gaps in the rails for some reason.

Me too. I'm fed up of hearing promises about when the line and or rolling stock will be upgraded. We'll compare notes one day

[merseymouth]

Morning all, Sadly the Pacers are proving more reliable than the new CAF rolling stock! The rolling stock situation is a joke in this country, but we ain't laughing . Bring back the Black 5's. IGICB MM

[kwackers]

Morning all, Sadly the Pacers are proving more reliable than the new CAF rolling stock! The rolling stock situation is a joke in this country, but we ain't laughing . Bring back the Black 5's. IGICB MM

Given trains are often cancelled because a member of the train crew hasn't turned up I can't imagine having to run a Black 5 is going to improve their willingness to work.

Mind you if Volkswagen made steam locos you could be pretty sure they'd be low emission...

[Cyril Haearn]

Right again MM, there are still some unrestored Barry Hulks available

At Christmas thousands of kiddies are driven to steam railways to see Santa, apparently some never travel by ordinary trains, they think steam is normal
..
Driving a train might be an interesting job but I saw an advert for one train operator: 'a shift with us always finishes at the place it starts'
Apparently many diagrams start and finish at different places, staff have to be very "flexible"

[mjr]

Morning all, Sadly the Pacers are proving more reliable than the new CAF rolling stock! The rolling stock situation is a joke in this country, but we ain't laughing . Bring back the Black 5's. IGICB MM

All rolling stock has introduction problems. As well as the never-cured noisy rail-grinding, some of the early pacers blew up spectacularly spraying oil all around IIRC. None are still using their original engines and transmissions.

The CAF random abrupt door closing fault is worrying, but the Stadlers over here in the east have been on restricted duty last week after one failed to activate an automatic level crossing. Both will be big improvements once they work: more seats, more acceleration, more bike spaces.

[DNC123]

I rode on one of the new Northern rail trains a week after it was introduced. Manchester to Liv6rpool.
One week in service and the clock was wrong, the supposedly excellent wifi wasn't switched on and the toilets were out of order.
That's not teething troubles; that's CBA.
Sooner Northern have their franchise removed the better.

[Cyril Haearn]

Toilets, plural?
Did read about a guard on a train where the toilets were not working
She handed vouchers* to the disgruntled passengers
..
* exchangeable for drinks

Anybody here with experience of Parry People Movers?

[mjr]

I rode on one of the new Northern rail trains a week after it was introduced. Manchester to Liv6rpool.
One week in service and the clock was wrong, the supposedly excellent wifi wasn't switched on and the toilets were out of order.
That's not teething troubles; that's CBA.
Sooner Northern have their franchise removed the better.

Clock being wrong is probably related to sending the trains out without working internet (the clock probably sets itself using Network Time Protocol). The lack of internet is a teething problem in that they decided not to keep the trains back for that.

Toilets though are a widespread problem. Once the sewage tanks are full, they say "out of order". I agree that the lack of tank emptying is a bit of a CBA problem.

[ThePinkOne]

There's worse things to ride on than Pacers......

The hot summer day I was at Salisbury going to Cardiff and a very clapped out 2-car Cl 158 turned up- air con not working (normal for those) and only 3 of the 4 the tiny hopper windows (two per coach) open. The seats (for those lucky enough to have one) were saggy and worn out, I found the best seating position in terms of both comfort and breeze was the luggage rack....... there was also one of the engines broken and when the Driver handed over to the next Driver I heard him telling the incoming chap to be gentle with it as a second engine was a bit ropey too. Was a hot and slow trip.

In those circumstances, a 4-car Pacer (from Canton depot, in the ATW overhaul) would have been far more preferable. Enough seats for everyone, space for 16 bikes, lots of hopper wndows to open, much better power-to-weight ratio. For all the faults of ATW, their Canton depot had the Pacers really sorted- got good reliability from them. (Unfortunately, with TfW taking over and the replacement sets being late, the Pacers have deteriorated as they got minimal maintenance as expected to be gone by now).

Nicknames- varied around the country. "Bouncy Castles", "Nodding Donkeys" and "Skippers" were the most used within the industry ("Skippers" in some areas where they didn't activate the track circuits very well- an issue quickly remedied; the other 2 nicknames reflecting the ride).

I don't know why they were Pacers, but as the next trains up were "Sprinters" (cl 150) and the next ones up "Expresses" (cl 158/159) I suspect it was just a naming sequence which reflected the speeds/use.

TPO

[mjr]

Small notes: some say "Pacer" was in homage to the earlier similar "Pacerailer", "Skippers" was actually the Western region's official name for them, all classes 150-159 were Sprinters of various types and 158/9 were Express Sprinters. Over here, "Expresses" were class 365 but they were Networker Expresses not Sprinters.

[RickH]

... "Skippers" was actually the Western region's official name for them...

So an official title not someone's comparison with a skip?

Although, as I've said before, I'm quite fond of the old Pacers. Even if I probably won't get to travel on one again as they seem to be being rapidly pulled from service now.

[Mike Sales]

I always thought that "Sprinter" was a good name for those trains which could not go very far without stopping. Though they were not very fast either.