Organisations (mis-)using your data . . . [ er, probably ]

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meandros
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Joined: 1 Jan 2018, 7:34pm

Organisations (mis-)using your data . . . [ er, probably ]

Postby meandros » 28 Oct 2019, 1:04pm

This subject split out of the Rohloff discussion in TECHNICAL : Graham



I think tesla is an inferior product...

Look up the story of the "tesla rogue mechanic": the man is an inspiration and a hope to freedom against corporate mass control and mass surveillance.


To be less succint, in my book, a superior product is one that can be serviced outside the jurisdiction of the company/corporation that physically made it. In that sense, I don't need my ID and police records to buy a darn bike part and I will NOT be presumed a criminal just because I would not (willingly) fork over my _personal_ data; I mean that's the entire freakin' premise of 1984, lads! Cynicism is the religi0n of defetist m0r0ns and I will not be a cynic when it comes to personal freedoms of any kind.
Last edited by meandros on 28 Oct 2019, 2:12pm, edited 2 times in total.

meandros
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Re: Why the Rohloff Speedhub is (secretly) inferior

Postby meandros » 28 Oct 2019, 1:28pm

PH wrote:
meandros wrote:a hope to freedom against corporate mass control and mass surveillance.

and you prefer the Shimano model?
Rohloff have my serial numbers. Good, It's something that ought to be better publicised, it increases the value of a legitimate hub for sale and hopefully reduces the value of a stolen one.


Yes I do, dear PH. As long as I can get every part I need for a mechanism and can fix the rest with tools on hand in anonimity (I don't even need to use a credit card!), indeed, I do prefer Shimano, for it is what biking is ALL about: _personal_ freedom. remember that, PH? a time before you let the entire world know about how you feel and think and who you meet and what you like on f-buuk. A world before your city was littered with CCTV cams and code scanning devices. BTW, you in line for the next microchipping too right? Not even animals should have microchips in 'em, let alone humans. I bet the next big roughl-off improvement will have to be customer microchipping, that's gotta be way more precise than labelling a piece of aluminium with stickers, don't it?

What roughl-off do only gives them control over a physical thing that they got PAYED for and is no longer theirs. If they have a problem with criminals, then they have to talk to the polizzzzei, not grill civilians. why you ask? Because they are NEITHER an organ or an extesion of the law. The culture they come from is one of delation and it is evil at it's core because it refutes all personal freedoms and relies on centralized control. Better yet, along with hub manufacturing, they should make an official affiliation to the polizzzzzei so their potential customers know for sure they are leasing a hub from the police; as long as anyone that is not in roughl-off database is presumed a criminal, my statements make perfect sense: "one don't own no roughl-off, one lease it from po-po's, fork over yo IDz suckaz!" .... and scene.

p.s. Beg your collective pardons for my naive (and utterly useless) rant...
Last edited by meandros on 28 Oct 2019, 1:56pm, edited 1 time in total.

pete75
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Why the Rohloff Speedhub is (secretly) inferior

Postby pete75 » 28 Oct 2019, 8:06pm

meandros wrote:The culture they come from is one of delation and it is evil at it's core because it refutes all personal freedoms and relies on centralized control.


Which culture is that? Do you have any evidence for this claim?
On the point of giving serial numbers when ordering spare parts this is a common practice in ordering parts for all sorts of engineered products. It's done to ensure the correct parts are supplied.

meandros
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Re: Why the Rohloff Speedhub is (secretly) inferior

Postby meandros » 28 Oct 2019, 8:19pm

pete75 wrote:
meandros wrote:The culture they come from is one of delation and it is evil at it's core because it refutes all personal freedoms and relies on centralized control.


Which culture is that? Do you have any evidence for this claim?
On the point of giving serial numbers when ordering spare parts this is a common practice in ordering parts for all sorts of engineered products. It's done to ensure the correct parts are supplied.


A culture of delation that led to the HOLOCAUST! Study your history, dear pete75. I've lived in germanistan, pete75, it is the definition of police-banking state: NIGHTMARE! I'd rather live in Somalia than germanistan, it is that ugly.

And it's only a common practice because corporations have been ultimately allowed to run amock with customer information. Btw, social security numbering of people and calling people "resource" all started in germanistan. Today, as I write this, on every germanistanese ID card it is written: PERSONALAUSWEIS. I will let you discover what that means but it is clear this is a culture of little respect for the intrinsic freedom of every natural born living organism where even human beings are no more than personnel. Do you consider yourself a resource, personnel for the state you were born in, pete75? If so, like any resource, it is to be used up, depleted and a new resource found in it's place. "Man is not a number" sound familiar, pete75?

pete75
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Re: Why the Rohloff Speedhub is (secretly) inferior

Postby pete75 » 28 Oct 2019, 8:33pm

meandros wrote:
pete75 wrote:
meandros wrote:The culture they come from is one of delation and it is evil at it's core because it refutes all personal freedoms and relies on centralized control.


Which culture is that? Do you have any evidence for this claim?

On the point of giving serial numbers when ordering spare parts this is a common practice in ordering parts for all sorts of engineered products. It's done to ensure the correct parts are supplied.


A culture of delation that led to the HOLOCAUST! Study your history, dear pete75. I've lived in germanistan, pete75, it is the definition of police-banking state: NIGHTMARE! I'd rather live in Somalia than germanistan, it is that ugly.

And it's only a common practice because corporations have been ultimately allowed to run amock with customer information. Btw, social security numbering of people and calling people "resource" all started in germanistan. Today, as I write this, on every germanistanese ID card it is written: PERSONALAUSWEIS. I will let you discover what that means but it is clear this is a culture of little respect for the intrinsic freedom of every natural born living organism where even human beings are no more than personnel. Do you consider yourself a resource, personnel for the state you were born in, pete75? If so, like any resource, it is to be used up, depleted and a new resource found in it's place. "Man is not a number" sound familiar, pete75?


What the hell is delation?



Of course Personlaausweis is written on every German ID card - it's' German for identity card. In the same way Carte Nationale D'identitie is written on every French ID card because it's French for National Identity Card.

As for the rest of your post utterly ludicrous.

PH
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Re: Why the Rohloff Speedhub is (secretly) inferior

Postby PH » 28 Oct 2019, 11:38pm

pete75 wrote:As for the rest of your post utterly ludicrous.

Indeed, now we know his opinions are based on some crackpot extreme political beliefs rather than anything to do with hubs or cycling, it's easily ignored.

Carlton green
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Organisations (mis-)using your data . . . [ er, probably ]

Postby Carlton green » 29 Oct 2019, 8:06am

PH wrote:
pete75 wrote:As for the rest of your post utterly ludicrous.

Indeed, now we know his opinions are based on some crackpot extreme political beliefs rather than anything to do with hubs or cycling, it's easily ignored.


Is that really the case? I’d agree that nationalism and racism are too often the sources of much trouble but beware of suppressing people’s experiences of life too because that also leads to trouble too - that topic is poisonous and best avoided. Let’s just set aside the ‘crackpot and extreme’ beliefs, decide that they are not relevant to us, and examine the practical (as in applied to cycling use) aspects of the comments instead.

Do some companies gather data about their customers and use it inappropriately? In my experience and observation most companies gather all the data that they can and they do so for their own advantage, if the customer also benefits then that’s a happy coincidence. Personally I’d be OK with someone having my machine’s serial number if it actually helps them to provide the correct replacement parts to me but it’s questionable as to whether they need to keep owner details too - thin end of the wedge or just efficient customer care?

Technical points made by the OP have been discussed and each should be judged on technical merit rather than any other beliefs. It certainly appears that the OP has a large (technical) knowledge base and as such it wouldn’t be sensible to simply discount all his comments.
Last edited by Carlton green on 29 Oct 2019, 8:32am, edited 3 times in total.

brynpoeth
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Re: Organisations (mis-)using your data . . . [ er, probably ]

Postby brynpoeth » 29 Oct 2019, 8:25am

Germanistan? Japanistan! In the latter the death penalty is still used :(
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steelframe
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Re: Organisations (mis-)using your data . . . [ er, probably ]

Postby steelframe » 29 Oct 2019, 12:02pm

Carlton green wrote:
PH wrote:
pete75 wrote:As for the rest of your post utterly ludicrous.

Indeed, now we know his opinions are based on some crackpot extreme political beliefs rather than anything to do with hubs or cycling, it's easily ignored.


Is that really the case? I’d agree that nationalism and racism are too often the sources of much trouble but beware of suppressing people’s experiences of life too because that also leads to trouble too - that topic is poisonous and best avoided. Let’s just set aside the ‘crackpot and extreme’ beliefs, decide that they are not relevant to us, and examine the practical (as in applied to cycling use) aspects of the comments instead.


Being og German nationality and living in Germany I feel insulted by the OP's ludicrious claims about my country. While there is a lot to criticize about Germany I am very thankful to what possibilities it has opened for me. The claims of the OP about Germany are not just hilarious and far from any reality - they are insulting. The only thing that helps keeping cool ist that this guy has very obviously absolutely no clue what he is talking about and I feel sorry for anyone who takes him serious. His political and language related claims seem to be as "well" founded as his technical claims. I would simply consider him to be either a very simple mind or a troll, poisonous to any forum.

Carlton green wrote:Do some companies gather data about their customers and use it inappropriately?


Obviously yes. But I am absolutely sure that the Rohloff AG is not part of that game - in total opposite to what the OP claims.

As a side note: I am a huge advocate of privacy. But anyone who jumps on the OP's train should as a start be sure that
- he does not have an account with i.e. Facebook, Whatsapp, Instagramm etc.
- does not use any Google Services
- ist not using any services by Amazon let alone be a customer of their's
- does not use the internet w/o a fully loaded suite of ad- and tracking-blockers
- does not use an Oyster card
and so on and so on.

Carlton green wrote: Personally I’d be OK with someone having my machine’s serial number if it actually helps them to provide the correct replacement parts to me but it’s questionable as to whether they need to keep owner details too - thin end of the wedge or just efficient customer care?


A machine's serial number is not personal data and having them is a plain necessity to be able to provide the correct spare parts. This is just normal with almost any technical product. The OP massively confuses a lot of things: Obviously he has all the rights to modify his hub. He can even create spare parts on his own and build them in to the hub if he likes. If he wants to buy anything from Rohloff they have all the rights to sell or not sell to him and apply conditions to that - it is a different contract from the original one when buying the hub (ignoring the fact that he did not even buy the hub from them or a dealer but
second hand privately).

Carlton green wrote:Technical points made by the OP have been discussed and each should be judged on technical merit rather than any other beliefs. It certainly appears that the OP has a large (technical) knowledge base and as such it wouldn’t be sensible to simply discount all his comments.


To me it rather sounds like the OP mainly does have a very strong and very biased opinion rather than a serious technical knowledge base.

meandros
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Re: Organisations (mis-)using your data . . . [ er, probably ]

Postby meandros » 29 Oct 2019, 12:25pm

steelframe wrote:Being og German nationality and living in Germany I feel insulted by the OP's ludicrious claims about my country.


I sincerely apologize if anything I wrote came out as offensive to individuals and/or people(s). It was never my intention to offend anyone. But I do maintain what I wrote, germanistan is a police-banking state where personal freedoms are highly regulated and citizens are watched and tracked maybe as hardcore as china does. I have lived in Munich for the better part of a decade and have been in contact with persons working for the Cologne citizen surveillance and tracking office. I have been made aware of what they do. Back to Munich, that place does not move if the banks are closed; only police does and they look at everyone as potential criminal, with methods of sad memory from the stasi era. As I was talking with colleagues from the former DDR, they said they are being looked down upon and grilled, even if they are themselves germans. I had a colleague that was blocked up by police with dogs and all that even though he is german, looks german and was getting lunch. The stories can continue, dear steelframe.
Let me end with this, I went out to the country side as well and felt very close to the peasants still working their farms and growing cattle and whatnot. They made me feel hope for your people, steelframe. May God bless you and yours!

reohn2
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Re: Organisations (mis-)using your data . . . [ er, probably ]

Postby reohn2 » 29 Oct 2019, 1:09pm

Meandros(nice handle BTW)
So I buy a Rohloff hub and it breaks or needs a part,the serial Number is 5432100.
I contact Rohloff and quote the serial number so they can either supply the part or if I need to return it under warranty they also need my postal address and Visa card details so I can pay for any costs incurred.
What's wrong with that?
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meandros
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Re: Organisations (mis-)using your data . . . [ er, probably ]

Postby meandros » 29 Oct 2019, 1:52pm

reohn2 wrote:What's wrong with that?


everything. why does your car manufacturer need you chassis sn if you want to buy nuts and bolts for the whatever? if that is not excessive and abusive, let's all line up right now and have our foreheads stamped with bar codes 'cuz we're done.
now, as long as state law does not require driver's permit for biking and sn and owner regisration, why the FUDGE is herr reichkommissar roughl-off need my hub's serial in order for them to give me the details of their parts distributor so i can buy a fudging part they MIS-engineered : an ALUMINIUM driver with a steel cog! yeah...

reohn2
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Re: Organisations (mis-)using your data . . . [ er, probably ]

Postby reohn2 » 29 Oct 2019, 2:47pm

meandros wrote:
reohn2 wrote:What's wrong with that?


everything. why does your car manufacturer need you chassis sn if you want to buy nuts and bolts for the whatever?


Because my car's "nuts and bolts" change from year to year and sometimes within a year in the same model.


if that is not excessive and abusive, let's all line up right now and have our foreheads stamped with bar codes 'cuz we're done

I don't trust the state as much as the next person but TBH I think you're more than a leettle paranoid

now, as long as state law does not require driver's permit for biking and sn and owner regisration, why the FUDGE is herr reichkommissar roughl-off need my hub's serial in order for them to give me the details of their parts distributor so i can buy a fudging part they MIS-engineered : an ALUMINIUM driver with a steel cog! yeah...

To be clear I don't own a Rohloff so the parts you mention and their quality standard are a mystery to me,but that's not the point of this thread,it's about your 1984-esque paranoia.

If the hub is straight then I can't see a problem with Herr Rohloff requiring a serial number so one of his employees can bring up on the computer screen that hub year of manufacter so he can send you the correct part,which he'll also need your address to send it to.
Just like if I need a fluffle valve for a 2009 Citereon B302 may need me to provide a chassis or even a reg number so I get the exact right part.
Whereas if the original owner of the Rohloff in question registered it with Rohloff and later reported it stolen on a bike of his/hers,only the person now requiring parts has anything to worry about.

Of course you're paranoid self may not agree with those versions of serial number requirements,mine OTOH does.
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brynpoeth
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Re: Organisations (mis-)using your data . . . [ er, probably ]

Postby brynpoeth » 29 Oct 2019, 8:25pm

1984, 35 years ago?
Cash is still ubiquitous in Germany, but in Sweden paying by card is almost universal, there is talk of doing away with cash, Germany is not a police banking state, is Sweden one maybe?
I think Germany is the best country for Brefugees, Norway and Luxembourg are good too but both are small, for anyone who grew up under the Thatcher yoke, Merkel would be quite ok. Mind, there is no maximum speed limit on some motorways in Germany (like in North Korea, Haiti, Cuba)

If there is a lot of surveillance it is carefully kept quiet. The police and secret service famously failed to catch some neonazis (NSU) who lived 'underground' for many years and committed many murders
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pliptrot
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Re: Organisations (mis-)using your data . . . [ er, probably ]

Postby pliptrot » 30 Oct 2019, 9:02am

Being British, having lived there for 24 years, in Singapore for 6 years, in the USA for 7 years and Germany for 9 years, I would understand Meandros's comments if they were aimed at Singapore, or indeed The USA. Even then, the capacity for modern Governments to monitor and control their citizens is diminished by modern ways of life. Germany is a most agreeable place and I have no understanding of the negative comments about the place. Would that other nations emulate the European approach. Instead those other nations get neo-liberalist clap-trap which makes life harder for most in the service of a minority.