** The General Election Thread **

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reohn2
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Re: ** The General Election Thread **

Postby reohn2 » 13 Dec 2019, 2:07pm

merseymouth wrote:Hello Pete75, You say that I am provoking people to leave the UK because they can'tget their way?
I did no such thing! I was merely pointing out the fact that at each ballot we get far too many threatening to leave the UK if they don't get their way............

Who are these people?
I haven't seen one post on this or any other political thread on this forum where people have said they'll leave the country for whatever reason!

I choose not to interfere in the affairs of other nation states, unless the UK is part of the problem, such as in Ireland, so I ask why folk not resident in this country feel they have a right to stick their oar in?

I wish the same could be said of those who own the media,multinationals and even other countries such as Russia by the back door who don't live here who have poured millions of ££££'s into the Tory coffers whilst evading taxes and laundering money through these islands and their dominions such as the Caymans,etc.
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Debs
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Re: ** The General Election Thread **

Postby Debs » 13 Dec 2019, 2:19pm

Going back along they used to remark that if the weather was bad on Polling Day [such as it was wet and windy yesterday] then the Tory voter, and i don't mean the green welly barber jacket & Range Rover species, i mean the cringing working class selfish i'm all right Jack type Tory voter - will beat a path to the Polling Station and put their cross in the Tory box with a sly grin on their smug face.

Whilst on the other hand, the potential Labour voter is far more likely not want a walk in the rain to vote because it's far too much trouble, and preferring to stay in the warm pub drinking beer and talk about football.

A massive 32.7% of the electorate didn't bother to cast their vote yesterday, even though it was based upon the most important issues since WW2 :roll:

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Mick F
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Re: ** The General Election Thread **

Postby Mick F » 13 Dec 2019, 3:02pm

Debs wrote: A massive 32.7% of the electorate didn't bother to cast their vote yesterday, even though it was based upon the most important issues since WW2 :roll:
Didn't bother?

It could be that a majority of them didn't vote because it was pointless.

Our horrible Sheryll Murray Tory got in here (again) with 30odd thousand votes.
I voted Labour, and Gareth Derrick came second with only 10odd thousand votes.

It was pointless me going to vote. I knew it was a safe Tory seat, but there's no way on God's Earth that I would vote Tory. There must be millions of people living in a safe seat who want an alternative .............. but never have a chance to get anywhere near it.


................. so what's the point in voting?
Mick F. Cornwall

kwackers
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Re: ** The General Election Thread **

Postby kwackers » 13 Dec 2019, 3:35pm

Mick F wrote:
Debs wrote: A massive 32.7% of the electorate didn't bother to cast their vote yesterday, even though it was based upon the most important issues since WW2 :roll:
Didn't bother?

It could be that a majority of them didn't vote because it was pointless.

Our horrible Sheryll Murray Tory got in here (again) with 30odd thousand votes.
I voted Labour, and Gareth Derrick came second with only 10odd thousand votes.

It was pointless me going to vote. I knew it was a safe Tory seat, but there's no way on God's Earth that I would vote Tory. There must be millions of people living in a safe seat who want an alternative .............. but never have a chance to get anywhere near it.


................. so what's the point in voting?

Can't you vote for someone else?

I voted Labour but I did so because Warrington South is a marginal seat (and tbh our Labour candidate is a decent guy who actually tries).
However I'd sooner vote Green since I think there are vastly more important issues than brexit et al.

So if W.S wasn't marginal then that's what I'd do. There's obviously no chance they'd get in there but somewhere someone will look and say - there are X number of voters there voting for these policies - perhaps we could try and win a few over.

Alright it's hardly PR but at the moment there's a general assumption that I prefer Labour's policies when I don't.
So in some ways my vote has been wasted since my voice isn't really being heard.

Debs
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Re: ** The General Election Thread **

Postby Debs » 13 Dec 2019, 3:44pm

Mick F wrote:
Debs wrote: A massive 32.7% of the electorate didn't bother to cast their vote yesterday, even though it was based upon the most important issues since WW2 :roll:
Didn't bother?

It could be that a majority of them didn't vote because it was pointless.

Our horrible Sheryll Murray Tory got in here (again) with 30odd thousand votes.
I voted Labour, and Gareth Derrick came second with only 10odd thousand votes.

It was pointless me going to vote. I knew it was a safe Tory seat, but there's no way on God's Earth that I would vote Tory. There must be millions of people living in a safe seat who want an alternative .............. but never have a chance to get anywhere near it.


................. so what's the point in voting?


But there is no benefit of hindsight before the votes are counted so how would you know there is no point in voting?

The Montgomeryshire constituency [where i reside] has suffered the same setback as yours, Mick.
Even if the 5k odd Labour votes are added to the 7k odd LD votes, they still don't come anywhere near the Con votes of over 20k!

And there was me thinking the LD around here would regain its traditional territory this time! : (

We could be united in the same cause/reason that our pensive votes fell foul of not being within the winning representation - changing demographics in the area, incomers [ people with big fat incomes ] moving into an area in sufficient numbers over a period of time, and bringing with them a very different mindset of political ideology. Although i'm sure other factors also apply.
Last edited by Debs on 13 Dec 2019, 3:58pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mick F
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Re: ** The General Election Thread **

Postby Mick F » 13 Dec 2019, 3:58pm

Debs wrote:But there is no benefit of hindsight before the votes are counted so how would you know there is no point in voting?
Exactly.
That's why I voted.
I knew there was little chance of getting rid of the woman, but I still did my bit in hope.
(not complaining that she's a woman, I'm complaining about the fact that I don't want a Tory, especially one like her)

Did anyone listen to the R4 programme the other day about why there are millions of people who don't vote?
Various reasons given.
Can't be bothered, no point, no interest, no-one listens, safe seat, not on the electoral role and don't want to be.

The Unheard Third.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000bvxl
Mick F. Cornwall

pete75
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Re: ** The General Election Thread **

Postby pete75 » 13 Dec 2019, 4:15pm

merseymouth wrote:Hello Pete75, You say that I am provoking people to leave the UK just because they disagree over issues such as Brexit?
I did no such thing! I was merely pointing out the fact that at each ballot we get far too many threatening to leave the UK if they don't get their way, all the way through the hustings they bleated about being unwilling to just get on with their lives as we all must?
The electorate of this country have spoken, accept it and move on!
I choose not to interfere in the affairs of other nation states, unless the UK is part of the problem, such as in Ireland, so I ask why folk not resident in this country feel they have a right to stick their oar in?
So I encourage all to either stop making wild accusations, folk who said they couldn't envisage living here if the country opts to leave the E.U. should either follow their words or just stop whinging!
Sort out the inequalities not berating those who took their own route at the ballot box. MM


What you said was this "Morning, Will the Jeremiahs form an orderly queue to exit the UK, please be quiet as you go!...." That doesn't tally with you self justification quoted above.

Think about your last sentence too - perhaps you could stop berating those who voted differently to yourself.

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Spinners
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Re: ** The General Election Thread **

Postby Spinners » 13 Dec 2019, 4:16pm

Carlton green wrote:
Something that Blair understood, and that people on the hard left don’t appear to, is that it’s better to be electable and do what you can than it is to be a party in opposition (in opposition your voice and actions have relatively little sway and the ‘worse’ alternative party can now do as it chooses). As they say: ‘it’s not rocket science’.



Spot on. Rather than call New Labour "Tories with red ties" I look back and reflect that it was the most stable economic period of my adult life and the financial crash was hardly of their own making.
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mattheus
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Re: ** The General Election Thread **

Postby mattheus » 13 Dec 2019, 4:21pm

Mick F wrote:
Debs wrote:But there is no benefit of hindsight before the votes are counted so how would you know there is no point in voting?
Exactly.
That's why I voted.
I knew there was little chance of getting rid of the woman, but I still did my bit in hope.
(not complaining that she's a woman, I'm complaining about the fact that I don't want a Tory, especially one like her)

Did anyone listen to the R4 programme the other day about why there are millions of people who don't vote?
Various reasons given.
Can't be bothered, no point, no interest, no-one listens, safe seat, not on the electoral role and don't want to be.

The Unheard Third.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000bvxl


Very interesting prog! (It showed that a lot of people are NOT apathetic, yet still didn't vote.)


And I agree that we should all vote even in safe seats - we ARE being counted, and you cannot know any result for certain. :thumbsup:

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horizon
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Re: ** The General Election Thread **

Postby horizon » 13 Dec 2019, 4:26pm

Spinners wrote:
Carlton green wrote:
Something that Blair understood, and that people on the hard left don’t appear to, is that it’s better to be electable and do what you can than it is to be a party in opposition (in opposition your voice and actions have relatively little sway and the ‘worse’ alternative party can now do as it chooses). As they say: ‘it’s not rocket science’.



Spot on. Rather than call New Labour "Tories with red ties" I look back and reflect that it was the most stable economic period of my adult life and the financial crash was hardly of their own making.


AFAIR, Labour started off really well in 1997, then the road building started again and then they gave into the petrol drivers and then came the war. During the whole of this time, there was an internal battle going on between the Blairites and Brownites, between Thatcherite economics and greater public spending, not to mention the changes in Clause 4 (the nationalisation principle). Tony Blair recognised that he had to keep the conservative working class on side but I think it would be hard to dismiss the notion of Tories in red ties completely. And don't forget targets, Best Value and the closing of council housing departments.

Labour under Corbyn has just gone back to being well, Labour and no, it probably won't win elections like that.
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merseymouth
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Re: ** The General Election Thread **

Postby merseymouth » 13 Dec 2019, 4:40pm

Hi again , "There is no benefit of hindsight until the votes have been counted"! Does that cover Mouthy Kuenssburg hinting about her knowledge of the postal vote figures? Such an act is why we have Electoral Laws. Send her to chokey :roll: .
People who do not bother to vote can't be taken seriously when they don't get an outcome of their choice, we all have a duty to vote.
With all of the boundary changes over the years many of us live in de facto Rotten Boroughs, so we see little use, but that is not a good enough reason to abuse the entire process. That excuse is applicable to safe seats of all complections, Labour here, Tory in other areas.
With a nice 5 year Parliament ahead maybe now would be the time to readjust the constituency issues, too many M.P.,s, imbalanced size of many is a joke.
Maybe also a debate should take place over PR, but as has been said many times the big two parties would not like that?
My one wish would be that it should be far more difficult to avoid being on the Electoral Register, then all folk who are on the Register should be compelled to vote or suffer penalties? Only a legal "Death Certificate" or "Being in Prison" would suit me fine! :shock: :shock: :shock: MM

mattheus
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Re: ** The General Election Thread **

Postby mattheus » 13 Dec 2019, 4:50pm

I can't support forced voting - it's perfectly reasonable to decide that one cannot decide, perhaps because they're all equally useless.

But if you don't vote, you don't get to moan afterwards ...

Mike Sales
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Re: ** The General Election Thread **

Postby Mike Sales » 13 Dec 2019, 4:57pm

mattheus wrote:I can't support forced voting - it's perfectly reasonable to decide that one cannot decide, perhaps because they're all equally useless.

But if you don't vote, you don't get to moan afterwards ...


Is not voting compulsory in Australia?
But what you do in the booth is secret of course, so you can write "none of the above" or spoil your ballot in whatever way you choose.
There are pros and cons, but it seems to me that a spoilt ballot is more meaningful than just not bothering.
I have done it once.

merseymouth
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Re: ** The General Election Thread **

Postby merseymouth » 13 Dec 2019, 5:11pm

Hi Mike, But if in a compulsory voting system there was a box on the Ballot stating - "None of them" would that appease your disquiet? It would be fine by me.
I just saw that in one Welsh seat there were 71 ballots excluded because they had no mark at all? Vanishing ink or what? :roll: MM

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bovlomov
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Re: ** The General Election Thread **

Postby bovlomov » 13 Dec 2019, 5:19pm

merseymouth wrote:Hi Mike, But if in a compulsory voting system there was a box on the Ballot stating - "None of them" would that appease your disquiet? It would be fine by me.

I'm not sure about compulsory voting, but if it were to come about, a 'None of the Above' box would definitely be necessary, and those figures would need to be read out at the declaration.

Like Mike, I've spoiled my vote. Only once, I think, when we were asked about whether we should have a mayor for London. The choice was 1) an assembly with a directly elected mayor or 2) No change: i.e. no London-wide body. I thought that was a terrible choice. We needed a London-wide co-ordinating body, but I felt a mayor would become a showbiz appointment. On average, I think I was right to be worried.