** The General Election Thread **

[Tao]

[Mike Sales]

These are the people I blame, rather than the monsters themselves. The enablers. The ones who know it's wrong, but support him - Johnson, Trump... whoever - anyway, through greed, ambition or cowardice.

Hancock.

Gove.

Morgan.

What's actually quite impressive is the people in the conservative party who have stood up to him.

Major, Stewart, Heseltine, Clarke, Hammond, Gauke etc.

And Dominic Grieve, the stand out MP of the last parliament.

It used to be said that loyalty was the Tories' secret weapon, but these people have damaged their political careers and been purged.
It may be that one day the party may come to take a different view, and welcome them back.
Didn't that raving Trot Heseltine launch a "scathing attack" on de Piffle?

[roubaixtuesday]

What's actually quite impressive is the people in the conservative party who have stood up to him.

Major, Stewart, Heseltine, Clarke, Hammond, Gauke etc.

And Dominic Grieve, the stand out MP of the last parliament.

Not many though, in a party of some tens of thousands.

Oh, sure.

But far more than in the Republican party, for example.

The party membership seems to have entirely been subsumed into a xenophobic sect, with a large slice of former ukip and other unsavoury characters.

[Tao]

[roubaixtuesday]

“We won the argument, but I regret we didn’t convert that into a majority for change”

Jeremy Corbyn

Idiot.

(Corbyn, not you. Though you might be an idiot too, of course )

[bovlomov]

“We won the argument, but I regret we didn’t convert that into a majority for change”

Jeremy Corbyn

Idiot.

(Corbyn, not you. Though you might be an idiot too, of course )

After tens of thousands of political posts on this forum, it should be clear that arguments are rarely 'won'. I mean, how is an argument won? When one of the combatants puts up a white flag and confesses that all their opinions were so much hot air? By counting the true facts? By the judgement of our peers?

I'm fairly certain I've not lost an argument on these pages, but I haven't won any either.

[horizon]

“We won the argument, but I regret we didn’t convert that into a majority for change”

Jeremy Corbyn

Tao: can you tell us a policy of the Conservatives that you liked and one of Labour that you didn't.

[horizon]

There again:

https://www.brunel.ac.uk/news-and-event ... y-suggests

[pwa]

“We won the argument, but I regret we didn’t convert that into a majority for change”

Jeremy Corbyn

Tao: can you tell us a policy of the Conservatives that you liked and one of Labour that you didn't.

Individual Labour policies were good. More money for this good thing, more money for that good thing. But there were far too many promises of money spending. The list seemed endless. It seemed unrealistic.

I was just listening to Peter Hain speaking from his home near Neath (S. Wales) where he was MP for about 25 years. He said that when he won in that seat in 1997 he had a majority of 27 000. On Thursday his successor won with a majority of only 6 000, and the party in second place was the Tories. In Neath, former coal mining and other heavy industry town. I hear the sound of Labour going down the plug hole, and I find that very sad.

[pete75]

Looks like we'll just have to accept Johnson is our master now and, for the next five years at least, we'll be subject to his capricious whims. Nothing to stop him now, all voices of reason kicked out of the conservative party and he has plans to end judicial review whereby people can challenge the legality of government action.

[merseymouth]

Hi Boviomov , You are wrong? I think you wrote that reasoned argument "rarely" wins on the forum!
I think it is quite obvious that it never wins as it is immediately countered by some sort of abuse. (Fascist, Xenophobic, Racist, Right Winger - add your own personal favourite).
I blame it all the comedians, the ones who think they're funny, not the jokers in the Commons. Abuse and bad language in place of wit!
Come back TW3 and Spitting Images! IGICB MM

[RickH]

“We won the argument, but I regret we didn’t convert that into a majority for change”

Jeremy Corbyn

The quote I have seen was

I am proud that on austerity, on corporate power, on inequality and on the climate emergency we have won the arguments and rewritten the terms of political debate

Which I think makes more sense. I don't know the context for that original snippet. The government had started talking about an end to austerity, etc. The BBC reports that the Queen's Speech will include a commitment to enshrine increases in spending on the NHS in England in legislation.

[Cunobelin]

Day 2 of the new caring and socially responsible Toriy Government.....

Tory MP calls for social care insurance for 'those who can afford it'

[Oldjohnw]

“We won the argument, but I regret we didn’t convert that into a majority for change”

Jeremy Corbyn

The quote I have seen was

I am proud that on austerity, on corporate power, on inequality and on the climate emergency we have won the arguments and rewritten the terms of political debate

Which I think makes more sense. I don't know the context for that original snippet. The government had started talking about an end to austerity, etc. The BBC reports that the Queen's Speech will include a commitment to enshrine increases in spending on the NHS in England in legislation.

The money could still be spent on the NHS and go straight to private providers.

[Oldjohnw]

Some realities, which are hard to acknowledge for many of us.

We are leaving the EU.

A Tory Government with Johnson at its helm and a bunch of fairly unpleasant right wingers running the various departments of state is in place for at least five years - although an early reshuffle, perhaps reflecting the new northern territories, is likely.

Johnson may be obliged to accommodate some amount of reversing austerity, although the new guysay be just as hard as the ERG - we don't yet know

For me, i'm watching: nurse recruitment, school funding, Police numbers, and will the number of food banks increase or reduce.

And will the Supreme Court retain its independence.

Meanwhile Labour the only possible alternative, will spend goodness knows how long tearing itself apart.