Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Use this board for general non-cycling-related chat, or to introduce yourself to the forum.
Polisman
Posts: 644
Joined: 9 May 2019, 2:23pm

Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Postby Polisman » 28 Nov 2019, 7:56am

Some people embellish reality, some people tell 'white' lies, often to protect the feelings of others. Some people just keep things from you (another form of deceit), and then there are those people who are simply pathological about lying.

They seem (or would like to be seen) to be not able to help themselves. Deceit is their modus operandi, when they hear the truth they twist it, strangle it, subvert it and almost always for personal or political gain. How can he call himself a Right Honourable gentleman?

I'm surprised this Achilles heel of our current PM hasn't been more pricked, more exploited, especially given t the notoriety of his side kick Cummings. He has lied his and squirmed his way through e every job and political position he's ever had. Relying on the Eton accent the old 'boys charm' and a flick of the blonde quiff to get him out of trouble (remind you of anyone?) Next he'll be mocking up a photo of himself as Rocky.

Has it really come to this? The electorate so bored and disenchanted they will vote for a known liar? Has lying in a professional position, a position of influence simply been normalised? Is it the new virtue? Is it 'cool'? Could you vote for a proven liar? Would you?

What's your experience of liars in positions of power and influence? I'm sure it's pretty much a universal problem, only exacerbated when you see people like Boris seemingly 'getting away with it' time after time after time.. :shock:
Last edited by Polisman on 28 Nov 2019, 5:56pm, edited 3 times in total.

Mike Sales
Posts: 5168
Joined: 7 Mar 2009, 3:31pm

Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a liar in power?

Postby Mike Sales » 28 Nov 2019, 8:02am

It beats me how de Piffle can make any election promises or assurances and have them taken seriously.
His whole career shows that he says whatever he thinks will best serve his case, with no reference whatever to truth.
It is said all politicians lie, but few as consistently and blatantly as him.
Trump is another such.

Tangled Metal
Posts: 7007
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a liar in power?

Postby Tangled Metal » 28 Nov 2019, 8:32am

They're all liars but Boris is more spectacular about it. Doesn't give a F!

Is it better to be completely open about your political lies than the usual style of political lying? Food for thought. I'd prefer honesty from politicians but I suspect that wouldn't get elected.

francovendee
Posts: 1525
Joined: 5 May 2009, 6:32am

Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a liar in power?

Postby francovendee » 28 Nov 2019, 8:35am

You'd be surprised how many people have said to me, 'I know he's lied but I still like him'.
Common sense seems to be in short supply.

User avatar
bovlomov
Posts: 4202
Joined: 5 Apr 2007, 7:45am
Contact:

Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a liar in power?

Postby bovlomov » 28 Nov 2019, 8:38am

On both sides of the pond we have been blaming the Russians, shadowy forces, Murdoch, etc. But could it be deeper than that? Might our seemingly collective disintegration be a symptom of a chronic decline. Power ebbs and flows. Yes, the US and UK still have the trappings of power, but beneath that the power has been ebbing away for fifty years or more (for the US. For us it has been longer).

Starting at the top, and permeating the entire media is a fog of denial. We haven't been managing our declining status, we have been denying it. We continue to deny it. But the symptoms are everywhere to see, and such a failure to face reality must have a profound effect on the collective psyche, in the form of denial, delusion, anger or nihilism.

Failure to admit the truth requires ever more elaborate logical contortions. Cognitive dissonance becomes a permanent soundtrack. Johnson's lies drown out the noise for a few moments. Of course the noise will return, louder than ever as each lie recedes. But who cares!

Tangled Metal
Posts: 7007
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a liar in power?

Postby Tangled Metal » 28 Nov 2019, 8:42am

francovendee wrote:You'd be surprised how many people have said to me, 'I know he's lied but I still like him'.
Common sense seems to be in short supply.

It's not common sense in this case just that people are thinking the options are so bad that Boris is the best option for many.

Don't you just hate that? Even I've wished for a better labour party that could work in opposition and government that i could vote for. How I wish Miliband had won that election now!

Polisman
Posts: 644
Joined: 9 May 2019, 2:23pm

Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a liar in power?

Postby Polisman » 28 Nov 2019, 8:49am

I joined up the Army when I was 17, for 8 years eventually serving in Afghanistan and Iraq. Its a time I would rather put behind me. As far as pathological liars go, it can get people killed. I i once observed an officer take the life of what everyone in the company thought a complete innocent, and watched him lie about every single detail of the incident to justify to his superiors. He was such a good liar that by the end of our tour, he even had me convinced it had been 'the right thing to do', of course shooting unarmed civilians at point blank range is never the right thing to do, but he told his story very very well indeed.

I see the same sort of pathological story telling abilities in Johnson. It's the little things. When asked how many children he has fathered 'oh five or six', it's his usual reply. Pathetic.

I hope Andrew Neil gets the boot into him in the upcoming BBC interview, but all evidence leads once to believe a no show is the likely outcome. Liars, especially pathological ones do not like to be put on the spot. Especially so in an election campaign.

User avatar
bovlomov
Posts: 4202
Joined: 5 Apr 2007, 7:45am
Contact:

Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a liar in power?

Postby bovlomov » 28 Nov 2019, 9:03am

Tangled Metal wrote:It's not common sense in this case just that people are thinking the options are so bad that Boris is the best option for many.
But why on earth would they think that?

Only someone seriously misinformed could think that Johnson is the best option. There is nothing in his record of personal or public behaviour to justify anything but mistrust. You could say 'all politicians lie'. You can think of all that's wrong with Labour, the Lib Dems and the other parties, but none of their faults - even added together - come close to the dishonesty, nastiness, racism, recklessness and sheer incompetence of Johnson.

You think Corbyn's an anti-semite? Johnson repeatedly published anti-semitic articles when he was editor of the Spectator. You think Labour would be bad Brexit negotiators? Johnson's deal was only made possible by an immediate capitulation on the one thing he claimed he would never countenance.His record as London Mayor was even worse, signing disastrous contracts on the bicycle hire scheme, the Olympic Park, the buses, the cable car, the water canon, and the famous bridge. You think Corbyn has terrorist friends? Johnson has been the biggest facilitator for the bombing of Yemeni civilians.

They are not all as bad as each other. Johnson is far, far worse, by any measurement. And, most of all, he is a dreadful human.

User avatar
horizon
Posts: 10184
Joined: 9 Jan 2007, 11:24am
Location: Cornwall

Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a liar in power?

Postby horizon » 28 Nov 2019, 9:28am

As much as I am sympathetic to the general tenor of the thread, I'm wondering whether it doesn't properly belong in the General Election thread. Any views and should I ask Graham to move it?
When the pestilence strikes from the East, go far and breathe the cold air deeply. Ignore the sage, stay not indoors. Ho Ri Zon 12th Century Chinese philosopher

reohn2
Posts: 39825
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a liar in power?

Postby reohn2 » 28 Nov 2019, 9:35am

bovlomov wrote:On both sides of the pond we have been blaming the Russians, shadowy forces, Murdoch, etc. But could it be deeper than that? Might our seemingly collective disintegration be a symptom of a chronic decline. Power ebbs and flows. Yes, the US and UK still have the trappings of power, but beneath that the power has been ebbing away for fifty years or more (for the US. For us it has been longer).

Starting at the top, and permeating the entire media is a fog of denial. We haven't been managing our declining status, we have been denying it. We continue to deny it. But the symptoms are everywhere to see, and such a failure to face reality must have a profound effect on the collective psyche, in the form of denial, delusion, anger or nihilism.

Failure to admit the truth requires ever more elaborate logical contortions. Cognitive dissonance becomes a permanent soundtrack. Johnson's lies drown out the noise for a few moments. Of course the noise will return, louder than ever as each lie recedes. But who cares!

Nail,head,on!
Seemingly normal people deny the obvious truth before them,a classic example was a 70year old woman I was chatting with when BoJo was lying his way in to the PM's job.
This seemingly very astute woman told me she longed for the Britain of her youth,apparently when she was young everything was sweetness and light,none of my explanations of how wrong she was,was accepted by her.The decline of the UK according to her was all to do with the EU with no explanation as to how,when,or why questioned just that it was all the EU's fault and our membership of it.
When asked if BoJo would make a good PM her unequivocal response was "of course,he has the best interests of the country at heart and him and Mr Trump will make a very good team"
No amount of my pointing out just how bad of a character he or Trump are,or the state the nation has been lead into by the Tories made any impression whatsoever.
Her abject denial is obvious and she's not alone in that denial.
People will simply not face upto reality,it's a world wide epidemic,climate change is a classic example.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

reohn2
Posts: 39825
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a liar in power?

Postby reohn2 » 28 Nov 2019, 9:46am

bovlomov wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:It's not common sense in this case just that people are thinking the options are so bad that Boris is the best option for many.
But why on earth would they think that?

Only someone seriously misinformed could think that Johnson is the best option. There is nothing in his record of personal or public behaviour to justify anything but mistrust. You could say 'all politicians lie'. You can think of all that's wrong with Labour, the Lib Dems and the other parties, but none of their faults - even added together - come close to the dishonesty, nastiness, racism, recklessness and sheer incompetence of Johnson.

You think Corbyn's an anti-semite? Johnson repeatedly published anti-semitic articles when he was editor of the Spectator. You think Labour would be bad Brexit negotiators? Johnson's deal was only made possible by an immediate capitulation on the one thing he claimed he would never countenance.His record as London Mayor was even worse, signing disastrous contracts on the bicycle hire scheme, the Olympic Park, the buses, the cable car, the water canon, and the famous bridge. You think Corbyn has terrorist friends? Johnson has been the biggest facilitator for the bombing of Yemeni civilians.

They are not all as bad as each other. Johnson is far, far worse, by any measurement. And, most of all, he is a dreadful human.

Nail,head,on once again!


A quetion for TM.
What makes Corbyn or Swinson FTM worse than Johnson?
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

Tangled Metal
Posts: 7007
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a liar in power?

Postby Tangled Metal » 28 Nov 2019, 10:16am

A quetion for TM.
What makes Corbyn or Swinson FTM worse than Johnson?

I don't know, ask someone who thinks that. I've been saying for some time now that there isn't anyone I can vote for. I think they're all a really bad choice. Looking back, with hindsight, my personal view is that there's been no good party leader since John major. Blair and brown for a choice of reasons, Cameron for Brexit, etc. Indeed I don't really rate Major but compared to what's around I think he was at least able to be a Statesman of some standing.

Of course I'm a Thatcher supporting conservative in my earliest voting. Or just before I could vote. Probably controversial on here but imho less controversial than the two main leaders now.

Cue backlash!

reohn2
Posts: 39825
Joined: 26 Jun 2009, 8:21pm

Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a liar in power?

Postby reohn2 » 28 Nov 2019, 10:20am

Tangled Metal wrote:
A quetion for TM.
What makes Corbyn or Swinson FTM worse than Johnson?

I don't know, ask someone who thinks that. I've been saying for some time now that there isn't anyone I can vote for. I think they're all a really bad choice. Looking back, with hindsight, my personal view is that there's been no good party leader since John major. Blair and brown for a choice of reasons, Cameron for Brexit, etc. Indeed I don't really rate Major but compared to what's around I think he was at least able to be a Statesman of some standing.

Of course I'm a Thatcher supporting conservative in my earliest voting. Or just before I could vote. Probably controversial on here but imho less controversial than the two main leaders now.

Cue backlash!

Thanks,at least you're honest enough to admit you don't know.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I cycle therefore I am.

Tangled Metal
Posts: 7007
Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 8:32pm

Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a liar in power?

Postby Tangled Metal » 28 Nov 2019, 10:25am

reohn2 wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:
A quetion for TM.
What makes Corbyn or Swinson FTM worse than Johnson?

I don't know, ask someone who thinks that. I've been saying for some time now that there isn't anyone I can vote for. I think they're all a really bad choice. Looking back, with hindsight, my personal view is that there's been no good party leader since John major. Blair and brown for a choice of reasons, Cameron for Brexit, etc. Indeed I don't really rate Major but compared to what's around I think he was at least able to be a Statesman of some standing.

Of course I'm a Thatcher supporting conservative in my earliest voting. Or just before I could vote. Probably controversial on here but imho less controversial than the two main leaders now.

Cue backlash!

Thanks,at least you're honest enough to admit you don't know.

No I just don't think any of them are worth voting for, as bad a prospect for PM as each other. I didn't admit I don't know. I know well enough there's nobody I can vote for. They're as bad at each other in that respect.

Polisman
Posts: 644
Joined: 9 May 2019, 2:23pm

Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a liar in power?

Postby Polisman » 28 Nov 2019, 10:30am

horizon wrote:As much as I am sympathetic to the general tenor of the thread, I'm wondering whether it doesn't properly belong in the General Election thread. Any views and should I ask Graham to move it?


I think this is a more general, refined thread about people in position of power, in public office lying to, and eroding trust, with abandon to the public. Deceit in general, and what it does to society and the fabric of good government, relationships, families. What it can do to ordinary people and their lives and hopes.

It's not about the election per se, but how fit individuals are to take these public positions, when all the evidence is stacked against them, as a proven, pathological liar, in both private and public life.

I would like to move the thread on to forumers experience of being in a position either social, family or professional where they've been lied to, by a pathological liar, and what effect its had. Certainly shook me to the core, first time I experienced it.

I think the thread title says it all. Why would you trust someone with the next five years rule over almost every facet of daily life, (or indeed marry one, or go into business with) when you know they are a proven liar. People seem to do it all the time. Why?

Is an interesting psychological question, more than anything.
Last edited by Polisman on 28 Nov 2019, 10:38am, edited 1 time in total.