Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

[reohn2]

I have decided that entering into argument with Carpetcleaner is both sterile and futile.

I realised that soon after s/he began posting,s/he is a windereruper nothing more,don't feed him/her and s/he will go away.

[carpetcleaner]

I have decided that entering into argument with Carpetcleaner is both sterile and futile.

I realised that soon after s/he began posting,s/he is a windereruper nothing more,don't feed him/her and s/he will go away.

How would it not be be sterile and futile to argue with me?

If I eventually agree with your points?

[carpetcleaner]

The Tories have spent the last decade saying that austerity was required because Gordon Brown spent money on schools and hospitals. As a result we've had benefit cuts resulting in deaths (a view supported by the courts), closing of youth clubs, libraries, sure start, loss of 20,000 police officers and 25% of prison officers.

Just saying.

But what's your point?

The Conservatives did not grab power by force. They put forward their policies to the people and were elected to office by them. They have the permission of the people to implement their policies such as getting Brexit done.

If you want benefit increases and lots of youth clubs, libraries, sure start centres, police officers and prison officers you should form a political party which promises such things and stand for election.

Good luck.

[Psamathe]

I have decided that entering into argument with Carpetcleaner is both sterile and futile.

I would agree.

Ian

[Oldjohnw]

The Tories have spent the last decade saying that austerity was required because Gordon Brown spent money on schools and hospitals. As a result we've had benefit cuts resulting in deaths (a view supported by the courts), closing of youth clubs, libraries, sure start, loss of 20,000 police officers and 25% of prison officers.

Just saying.

But what's your point?

The Conservatives did not grab power by force. They put forward their policies to the people and were elected to office by them. They have the permission of the people to implement their policies such as getting Brexit done.

If you want benefit increases and lots of youth clubs, libraries, sure start centres, police officers and prison officers you should form a political party which promises such things and stand for election.

Good luck.

Like I said.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,

There is no perfect democracy. Perfect democracy is a myth. PR doesn't give you perfect democracy. It has its own distortions, just like FPTP. Firstly, when you vote for a party under either system you vote knowing that you support some of their policies but you hate others. They get 100% of your vote in spite of the fact that you only approve of 67% of their programme. That is a distortion. Then under either system you have no control over your chosen party after your ballot paper disappears through he slot. Distortion number two. With FPTP we have the obvious distortion of winning the whole of a constituency just by having the largest portion of the vote, which may be less than half. But with PR we have the almost inevitability of coalition government which means whatever you vote for, what you actually get will not be that, it will be the product of deals done behind closed doors. The party you voted for may abandon policies you supported and take on policies you opposed in order to be in government. Think of all the poor saps who voted Lib Dem and got the coalition government a decade ago. That will be the norm under PR. PR is not pure and wholesome, it just puts the distortion in a different place. It guarantees a loud voice for tiny parties like the DUP. I don't have a clear and settled preference for either system, but I find laughable the notion that PR produces government that accurately reflects public opinion.

+1
as per usual PWA You bring sanity and reason to post full of idealistic Unrealistic wants.
We all want, and we try carefully to put a caring flavour on it, Well some of us do anyway.
You might remember when you were at school, someone would throw something across the classroom, the teacher would spot it and say who done that?
If the real culprit was caught out they would automatically blame somebody else.
Is politics any different to that.
Someone once said to me that everybody thinks that everyone else has more money than them.
That's not particularly very true, when you consider how many people survive on loans.
Very difficult to assess someone's financial status without knowing it.
It appears to me that most people don't have much interest in politics at all, it's a very small minority who know what's going on with good reason.
The rest just see it the way they want to see it, and vote accordingly, with a different system have any different outcome?
As said probably not.
Before the media gets hold of a subject and thrash it to death, people have already made their mind up good or bad in their own way.
It's like just one big classroom isn't it.
I always say to people in a crisis keep a very close eye on the ones you will know will cause the most trouble and distance yourself from them.
We've all got bigger fish to fry at the moment.

[NATURAL ANKLING]

Hi,

I have decided that entering into argument with Carpetcleaner is both sterile and futile.

I realised that soon after s/he began posting,s/he is a windereruper nothing more,don't feed him/her and s/he will go away.

What like you did R2
I think that The mods have said several times not to name call and call people out, it just adds to the vitriol.
Oops looks like I'm guilty of that too

[PH]

But what's your point?

The Conservatives did not grab power by force. They put forward their policies to the people and were elected to office by them. They have the permission of the people to implement their policies such as getting Brexit done.

The point is right here in the title of this thread
Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?
The one thing you don't want to talk about.
No one suggested they grabbed power by force, the question is did they grab it with dishonesty and subterfuge? You claim people voted for the policies put forward, that's fine if it's true, regardless of the nuts and bolts of the electoral system. PWA is correct that once in power they can do as they please and change whatever parliament approves. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be questioned and held to account, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be asking why do X when you said you were doing Y. If the only answer they have is "Because we can" then that's what they'll be judged on, we won't get the answer without asking the question. Have you the answers? Or will you just continue ducking and looking for distractions?
You don't know, anymore than me, why people voted the way they did. I'd be very surprised if all those traditional Tory voters thought they were voting for a fiscal policy other than the one well established over the last thirty years. Anymore than the traditional Labour voters in the 90's thought they were voting for the abandonment of the unions and the expensive dishonesty of PFI.

[carpetcleaner]

But what's your point?

The Conservatives did not grab power by force. They put forward their policies to the people and were elected to office by them. They have the permission of the people to implement their policies such as getting Brexit done.

The point is right here in the title of this thread
Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?
The one thing you don't want to talk about.
No one suggested they grabbed power by force, the question is did they grab it with dishonesty and subterfuge? You claim people voted for the policies put forward, that's fine if it's true, regardless of the nuts and bolts of the electoral system. PWA is correct that once in power they can do as they please and change whatever parliament approves. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be questioned and held to account, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be asking why do X when you said you were doing Y. If the only answer they have is "Because we can" then that's what they'll be judged on, we won't get the answer without asking the question. Have you the answers? Or will you just continue ducking and looking for distractions?
You don't know, anymore than me, why people voted the way they did. I'd be very surprised if all those traditional Tory voters thought they were voting for a fiscal policy other than the one well established over the last thirty years. Anymore than the traditional Labour voters in the 90's thought they were voting for the abandonment of the unions and the expensive dishonesty of PFI.

So what do want from this thread? A long list of moans and rants about Boris with no opposing views?

I welcome a diversity of views and when someone persistently refuses to stop posting opinions I don't agree with even when presented with my pearls of wisdom I do not assume they are winding me up. That would be arrogant of me for overestimating my powers of persuasion and concluding that anyone who cannot see the sense in what I say must be doing it just to be difficult.

[PH]

So what do want from this thread? A long list of moans and rants about Boris with no opposing views?

If you oppose the moans, then I expect a reasoned argument in support about whatever is being moaned about. I could run through this thread and pick out a dozen such moans just from myself, not a single one has been answered with anything other than distraction or indifference. I want opposing views, what we get is the opposition without any views.

[Oldjohnw]

Funny really. A couple or so weeks ago cleaners, care workers etc were unwanted unskilled workers we wanted to send back to where they came from.

Now they are keeping the wheels on with dignity and courage.

[carpetcleaner]

Funny really. A couple or so weeks ago cleaners, care workers etc were unwanted unskilled workers we wanted to send back to where they came from.

Now they are keeping the wheels on with dignity and courage.

Politicians are like anyone else. They adapt to circumstances.

[Bonefishblues]

Funny really. A couple or so weeks ago cleaners, care workers etc were unwanted unskilled workers we wanted to send back to where they came from.

Now they are keeping the wheels on with dignity and courage.

Indeed, but still doing a job no-one else would want to do, and for a relative pittance, too. Thoughtful times.

[carpetcleaner]

So what do want from this thread? A long list of moans and rants about Boris with no opposing views?

If you oppose the moans, then I expect a reasoned argument in support about whatever is being moaned about. I could run through this thread and pick out a dozen such moans just from myself, not a single one has been answered with anything other than distraction or indifference. I want opposing views, what we get is the opposition without any views.

I'm sorry my replies don't meet your required standard.

[PH]

I'm sorry my replies don't meet your required standard.

Like I said - indifference.