Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

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Psamathe
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Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Postby Psamathe » 20 Mar 2020, 1:04pm

Ben@Forest wrote:
Psamathe wrote:I've been a bit shocked/surprised over the last few days talking to a few people who voted for Boris (who don't even know who their constituency MP is and regarded their vote for Boris). And they are now saying how he is totally out of his depth and handling things disastrously. And this is people who supported and voted for his relatively recently!

Ian


You have a recurring theme of talking to seemingly ignorant people who didn't understand things very recently, but their comments now should be considered a deep and wise reflection of the current situation.

Other than on this forum (l don't belong to any others) I've heard nothing more than a resigned and moderately anxious attitude which does not blame this or any government for the situation we're in. It is an extraordinary situation and we have the world's most global city where most of the infections have been, both by number and per capita. Can you get some of those 'l didn't even understand the political system but now l have a relevant and informed opinion on pandemic control' to post here?

I wont even try (and fail). They have no interest in cycling and I expect no interest in justifying their position and it's anecdotal anyway.

My impression from talking to them was not shock about the pandemic or resignation about the pandemic etc. but more about the way Johnson is coming across, the impression he is giving about his decision making process.

Ian

Ben@Forest
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Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Postby Ben@Forest » 20 Mar 2020, 1:07pm

carpetcleaner wrote:In the aftermath of this whole affair we can only criticise Boris if things went particularly badly and that it can be shown he deliberately ignored the advice of professional experts who are paid to advise him on virus pandemics.


Exactly. And scientists have differing opinions and egos, sometimes massive egos. I was once at a seminar when two men, an academic and a practitioner (but educated to at least degree level) had to be physically restrained from each other, and that was only about coppicing!

PH
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Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Postby PH » 20 Mar 2020, 5:05pm

Ben@Forest wrote:
carpetcleaner wrote:In the aftermath of this whole affair we can only criticise Boris if things went particularly badly and that it can be shown he deliberately ignored the advice of professional experts who are paid to advise him on virus pandemics.


Exactly. And scientists have differing opinions and egos,

The only way to know if the actions being taken are the right ones would be to have an identical situation with different advice, it's an impossibility so we can only make comparisons with similar and speculate.
However - I've not seen much expert advise supporting the original idea of herd immunity and "Taking it on the chin" as I'm told he said on breakfast TV a few days ago. That advise has now changed, but as is often the case the idea has been established, I've just watched a clip of gym users who are repeating the same phrase, they'll take it on the chin.

PH
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Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Postby PH » 20 Mar 2020, 5:43pm

carpetcleaner wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:If Johnson really believed that people shouldn't mass in pubs he would close them.


That would be authoritarian.

They've now been told to close, does that mean J Edgar now thinks he's become authoritarian?

carpetcleaner
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Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Postby carpetcleaner » 20 Mar 2020, 6:00pm

PH wrote:
carpetcleaner wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:If Johnson really believed that people shouldn't mass in pubs he would close them.


That would be authoritarian.

They've now been told to close, does that mean J Edgar now thinks he's become authoritarian?


No. He is exhibiting strong leadership in difficult times.

PH
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Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Postby PH » 20 Mar 2020, 6:15pm

carpetcleaner wrote:
PH wrote:
carpetcleaner wrote:
That would be authoritarian.

They've now been told to close, does that mean J Edgar now thinks he's become authoritarian?


No. He is exhibiting strong leadership in difficult times.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Difficult times for sure and we could all do with a laugh, that doesn't mean a clown should be PM.

kwackers
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Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Postby kwackers » 20 Mar 2020, 6:22pm

I only caught the tail end of the news.

Did Corbyn win after all and has been wearing BoJo's face all along?
It's all sounding a bit socialist out there...

Oldjohnw
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Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Postby Oldjohnw » 20 Mar 2020, 6:44pm

PH wrote:
carpetcleaner wrote:
PH wrote:They've now been told to close, does that mean J Edgar now thinks he's become authoritarian?


No. He is exhibiting strong leadership in difficult times.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Difficult times for sure and we could all do with a laugh, that doesn't mean a clown should be PM.


From authoritarian to string leadership in a day. I really believe CC was put onnearth just to wind up. Just smile in the face of this adversity.
John

Oldjohnw
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Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Postby Oldjohnw » 20 Mar 2020, 7:15pm

I'm sure there will be much I disagree with the chancellor,but he shows clarity, being in charge of his brief and leadership. But then, it looks like he is becoming a socialist.
John

Oldjohnw
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Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Postby Oldjohnw » 20 Mar 2020, 7:15pm

I'm sure there will be much I disagree with the chancellor,but he shows clarity, being in charge of his brief and leadership. But then, it looks like he is becoming a socialist.

His boss, on the other hand, waffles, arm waves, blusters and says nothing.
John

carpetcleaner
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Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Postby carpetcleaner » 20 Mar 2020, 8:37pm

Oldjohnw wrote:
PH wrote:
carpetcleaner wrote:
No. He is exhibiting strong leadership in difficult times.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Difficult times for sure and we could all do with a laugh, that doesn't mean a clown should be PM.


From authoritarian to string leadership in a day. I really believe CC was put onnearth just to wind up. Just smile in the face of this adversity.


My opinions are entirely consistent with each other. I assume Boris acts on the advice of experts. If he'd closed pubs when the experts did not advise such a measure that would have been unnecessary and authoritarian. To close them after the advice changes shows he is prepared to follow advice even when he knows it will be unpopular with many people. That shows strong leadership.

pete75
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Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Postby pete75 » 20 Mar 2020, 9:06pm

carpetcleaner wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:
PH wrote: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Difficult times for sure and we could all do with a laugh, that doesn't mean a clown should be PM.


From authoritarian to string leadership in a day. I really believe CC was put onnearth just to wind up. Just smile in the face of this adversity.


My opinions are entirely consistent with each other. I assume Boris acts on the advice of experts. If he'd closed pubs when the experts did not advise such a measure that would have been unnecessary and authoritarian. To close them after the advice changes shows he is prepared to follow advice even when he knows it will be unpopular with many people. That shows strong leadership.


In your own mind certainly but that's not very consistent either is it?

carpetcleaner
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Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Postby carpetcleaner » 20 Mar 2020, 10:36pm

pete75 wrote:
carpetcleaner wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:
From authoritarian to string leadership in a day. I really believe CC was put onnearth just to wind up. Just smile in the face of this adversity.


My opinions are entirely consistent with each other. I assume Boris acts on the advice of experts. If he'd closed pubs when the experts did not advise such a measure that would have been unnecessary and authoritarian. To close them after the advice changes shows he is prepared to follow advice even when he knows it will be unpopular with many people. That shows strong leadership.


In your own mind certainly but that's not very consistent either is it?


I think I'm consistent, but of course I can't be sure. It is difficult to be objective about one's own mind.You must come to your own conclusions about how consistent I am. I'll do the same about you.

PH
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Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Postby PH » 20 Mar 2020, 10:41pm

carpetcleaner wrote:My opinions are entirely consistent with each other. I assume Boris acts on the advice of experts. If he'd closed pubs when the experts did not advise such a measure that would have been unnecessary and authoritarian. To close them after the advice changes shows he is prepared to follow advice even when he knows it will be unpopular with many people. That shows strong leadership.

When was this advice change? I haven't seen that even claimed by the government. The advice from a couple of days ago was already to stay away from pubs, restaurants, and the rest. All that's changed is the realisation that people are not going to stop going out just because Boris has asked them to, particularly not when the rhetoric the day before was all about taking it on the chin and herd immunity nonsense, looks like he's dug his own hole. Really, who didn't think people would still go down the pub if it was open?

carpetcleaner
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Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Postby carpetcleaner » 20 Mar 2020, 10:59pm

PH wrote:
carpetcleaner wrote:My opinions are entirely consistent with each other. I assume Boris acts on the advice of experts. If he'd closed pubs when the experts did not advise such a measure that would have been unnecessary and authoritarian. To close them after the advice changes shows he is prepared to follow advice even when he knows it will be unpopular with many people. That shows strong leadership.

When was this advice change? I haven't seen that even claimed by the government. The advice from a couple of days ago was already to stay away from pubs, restaurants, and the rest. All that's changed is the realisation that people are not going to stop going out just because Boris has asked them to, particularly not when the rhetoric the day before was all about taking it on the chin and herd immunity nonsense, looks like he's dug his own hole. Really, who didn't think people would still go down the pub if it was open?


Where is your evidence that Boris ever wilfully ignored expert advice on virus pandemics, a subject he has never claimed to know anything about?

In the absence of evidence to the contrary I always assume people are good.