Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

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Psamathe
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Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Postby Psamathe » 23 Mar 2020, 10:30am

Oldjohnw wrote:Johnson says he will do whatever is necessary at the right time.

Like about two weeks ago.

Johnson's using weasel words. There are different "right times". The right time for a lot of things that still need to happen was (as you say) sometime ago (according to the scientific advice). The right time politically is different. When Johnson is eventually forced into doing "whatever is necessary" it will be after a significant delay and he will claim he's following "scientific advice" except by then it will be old, out-of-date scientific advice.

e.g. The social distancing scientific advice (that lowered fatalities and other impacts) required 75% reduction in social contact based on the situation at the time the models were run and when it should have been implemented. But Johnson delays and prevaricates and weakens (e.g. by using a Press Conference to say he'll probably be visiting his mother) so infection continues to rapidly spread so by the time action is required the original scientific requirement has changed and additional steps are required which Johnson prevaricates and delays over. All the time claiming he's following the scientific advice when reality he's doing too little too late.

Ian

Oldjohnw
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Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Postby Oldjohnw » 23 Mar 2020, 10:42am

Psamathe wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:Johnson says he will do whatever is necessary at the right time.

Like about two weeks ago.

Johnson's using weasel words. There are different "right times". The right time for a lot of things that still need to happen was (as you say) sometime ago (according to the scientific advice). The right time politically is different. When Johnson is eventually forced into doing "whatever is necessary" it will be after a significant delay and he will claim he's following "scientific advice" except by then it will be old, out-of-date scientific advice.

e.g. The social distancing scientific advice (that lowered fatalities and other impacts) required 75% reduction in social contact based on the situation at the time the models were run and when it should have been implemented. But Johnson delays and prevaricates and weakens (e.g. by using a Press Conference to say he'll probably be visiting his mother) so infection continues to rapidly spread so by the time action is required the original scientific requirement has changed and additional steps are required which Johnson prevaricates and delays over. All the time claiming he's following the scientific advice when reality he's doing too little too late.

Ian


Indeed. He issues a statement about caravans etc going to Scotland when they are already there. He closes pubs a week after his vague suggestions fall on deaf ears.

It's interesting that the UK, US and Australia are all way behind the curve at each step. The US has more cases than South Korea when Trump said it would be zero by April.
John

reohn2
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Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Postby reohn2 » 23 Mar 2020, 11:21am

Oldjohnw wrote:. .......It's interesting that the UK, US and Australia are all way behind the curve at each step. The US has more cases than South Korea when Trump said it would be zero by April.

Are you surprised at tpsuch incompetence?
I'm not,IMHO the UK,US and Oz have been trying to preserve their profit margins by delaying the inevitable at huge cost to their populations,health services and the very thing they're attempting to preserve!
The cost of both loss of life and commerce will be far greater due to the incompetence of those/our country's politrickians.
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Cunobelin
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Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Postby Cunobelin » 24 Mar 2020, 1:25pm

carpetcleaner wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:
ambodach wrote:Opinion polls must always be viewed with suspicion. The question asked and how it is framed can be made to generate answers that suit the questioner. I am not an expert on this but I have seen a lot of polls that are a bit dubious to put it mildly.


Hadn't got to that bit yet, also the reason, I gave the numbers

CC has a habit where if his agenda has one more 'vote" then they claim a massive majority of the population is on their side. Something that has been proven to be deeply flawed on multiple occasions.


Can you show me one instance of this alleged habit of mine?


Page 108 will do as a classic example


I don't claim that small wins in votes mean a 'massive majority' for my side.

Some people on here claim that any sort of majority for their opponents is no indication of public opinion or any indication of who the public wants to rule the country.

That kind of arithmetic desperation is deeply flawed, and most amusing too. I look forward to more examples of it on this forum.


That has been your claim, it has been proven to you again and again that the electoral process allows a minority to form the Government and lead the Country. The Government is a classic example.... there are more voters who did NOT vote for them. Note I did not try your disproven claims about the "population".

This Twitter account tells me a lot of things I like to hear at the moment.

https://twitter.com/britainelects?ref_s ... r%5Eauthor





It has also been demonstrated previously why the bias and unreliability of Britain Elects make it a dubious source, yet you have explained why you ignore that is because "This Twitter account tells me a lot of things I like to hear at the moment." You have demonstrated my point
Last edited by Cunobelin on 24 Mar 2020, 1:36pm, edited 2 times in total.

PH
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Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Postby PH » 24 Mar 2020, 1:34pm

Even the Times seems to have turned on Boris, several articles over the last week have critisised his handling of the current situation, here's an example, though apologies the bulk of it are behind a paywall.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the- ... -s5kwgksb8

carpetcleaner
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Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Postby carpetcleaner » 24 Mar 2020, 7:22pm

Cunobelin wrote:
carpetcleaner wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:
Hadn't got to that bit yet, also the reason, I gave the numbers

CC has a habit where if his agenda has one more 'vote" then they claim a massive majority of the population is on their side. Something that has been proven to be deeply flawed on multiple occasions.


Can you show me one instance of this alleged habit of mine?


Page 108 will do as a classic example


I don't claim that small wins in votes mean a 'massive majority' for my side.

Some people on here claim that any sort of majority for their opponents is no indication of public opinion or any indication of who the public wants to rule the country.

That kind of arithmetic desperation is deeply flawed, and most amusing too. I look forward to more examples of it on this forum.


That has been your claim, it has been proven to you again and again that the electoral process allows a minority to form the Government and lead the Country. The Government is a classic example.... there are more voters who did NOT vote for them. Note I did not try your disproven claims about the "population".

This Twitter account tells me a lot of things I like to hear at the moment.

https://twitter.com/britainelects?ref_s ... r%5Eauthor





It has also been demonstrated previously why the bias and unreliability of Britain Elects make it a dubious source, yet you have explained why you ignore that is because "This Twitter account tells me a lot of things I like to hear at the moment." You have demonstrated my point


I'm glad you think so.

I am satisfied that the various poll results show something I like.

And you are certain they show no such thing.

We are both happy.

Vorpal
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Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Postby Vorpal » 25 Mar 2020, 9:45am

Posts removed.

Please stop the sniping.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

Vorpal
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Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Postby Vorpal » 25 Mar 2020, 9:52am

Oldjohnw wrote:
It's interesting that the UK, US and Australia are all way behind the curve at each step. The US has more cases than South Korea when Trump said it would be zero by April.

Australia seems to be coping okay, so far. They implemented social distancing fairly early, and immediately began to set up clinics for testing and assessment. Their first cases were somewhat earlier than the UK, so they have a similar number recovered, despite lower overall numbers and many fewer deaths.
“In some ways, it is easier to be a dissident, for then one is without responsibility.”
― Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

Oldjohnw
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Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Postby Oldjohnw » 25 Mar 2020, 10:15am

Vorpal wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:
It's interesting that the UK, US and Australia are all way behind the curve at each step. The US has more cases than South Korea when Trump said it would be zero by April.

Australia seems to be coping okay, so far. They implemented social distancing fairly early, and immediately began to set up clinics for testing and assessment. Their first cases were somewhat earlier than the UK, so they have a similar number recovered, despite lower overall numbers and many fewer deaths.


Thanks re Australia. UK getting in track but we missed a week I fear. All we had was "Don't shake hands, wash your hands and say three Hail Marys or whatever and please chaps if you don't mind it will be awfully nice of you but can you possibly keep out of the pub". We are, of course, in a sense making it up as we go along because there is no modern precedent.
John

AlaninWales
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Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Postby AlaninWales » 25 Mar 2020, 11:12am

There is also no precedent for how to lift the restrictions. The likelihood is that at the first signs of them lifting (or reported cases reducing) there will be a rush to socialise and shop, with predictable results. The virus is in the wild, no-one knows how it will behave over time (whether it will become like the common cold which we have no stable immunity to, or like flu which we just about can provide immunity for most people). Once the lockdowns start to lift, we'll be back on the steep side of (at least) the learning curve.

carpetcleaner
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Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Postby carpetcleaner » 25 Mar 2020, 4:48pm

AlaninWales wrote:There is also no precedent for how to lift the restrictions. The likelihood is that at the first signs of them lifting (or reported cases reducing) there will be a rush to socialise and shop, with predictable results. The virus is in the wild, no-one knows how it will behave over time (whether it will become like the common cold which we have no stable immunity to, or like flu which we just about can provide immunity for most people). Once the lockdowns start to lift, we'll be back on the steep side of (at least) the learning curve.


I expect the government will lift the restrictions in Labour voting London constituencies first. No point taking chances with your own voters.

Psamathe
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Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Postby Psamathe » 26 Mar 2020, 2:43pm

Looks like another failing from Johnson, something promised yet reality is not quite what he promised.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-eviction-landlord-tenant-uk-boris-johnson-ban-a9427361.html wrote:Coronavirus: ‘Record number of tenants’ being thrown out after government refuses to backdate evictions ban
...
An evictions firm says it is taking on extra staff to kick out “a record number of tenants” – after protests that Boris Johnson broke his promise of a ban .
...
Instead, a bar on court proceedings only kicks in now, and landlords can still inform tenants of an intention to evict them after late June, forcing many to prepare to move out.
...
The company said the government had not made it aware of “any restrictions or official advice since the Covid-19 pandemic was announced” – and had received no response to requests for it.

Ian

carpetcleaner
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Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Postby carpetcleaner » 26 Mar 2020, 4:12pm

Psamathe wrote:Looks like another failing from Johnson, something promised yet reality is not quite what he promised.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-eviction-landlord-tenant-uk-boris-johnson-ban-a9427361.html wrote:Coronavirus: ‘Record number of tenants’ being thrown out after government refuses to backdate evictions ban
...
An evictions firm says it is taking on extra staff to kick out “a record number of tenants” – after protests that Boris Johnson broke his promise of a ban .
...
Instead, a bar on court proceedings only kicks in now, and landlords can still inform tenants of an intention to evict them after late June, forcing many to prepare to move out.
...
The company said the government had not made it aware of “any restrictions or official advice since the Covid-19 pandemic was announced” – and had received no response to requests for it.

Ian



Did Boris ever promise to backdate the ban on evictions?

I doubt it.

Retrospective legislation is very rare.

pete75
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Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Postby pete75 » 26 Mar 2020, 4:36pm

carpetcleaner wrote:
AlaninWales wrote:There is also no precedent for how to lift the restrictions. The likelihood is that at the first signs of them lifting (or reported cases reducing) there will be a rush to socialise and shop, with predictable results. The virus is in the wild, no-one knows how it will behave over time (whether it will become like the common cold which we have no stable immunity to, or like flu which we just about can provide immunity for most people). Once the lockdowns start to lift, we'll be back on the steep side of (at least) the learning curve.


I expect the government will lift the restrictions in Labour voting London constituencies first. No point taking chances with your own voters.


Johnson or rather his master Cummins is certainly cynical enough to do that as, it appears, so are you. It seems your much trumpeted love of democracy extends to measures which may kill people who voted in a different way to yourself.

pete75
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Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Postby pete75 » 26 Mar 2020, 4:38pm

carpetcleaner wrote:
Psamathe wrote:Looks like another failing from Johnson, something promised yet reality is not quite what he promised.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-eviction-landlord-tenant-uk-boris-johnson-ban-a9427361.html wrote:Coronavirus: ‘Record number of tenants’ being thrown out after government refuses to backdate evictions ban
...
An evictions firm says it is taking on extra staff to kick out “a record number of tenants” – after protests that Boris Johnson broke his promise of a ban .
...
Instead, a bar on court proceedings only kicks in now, and landlords can still inform tenants of an intention to evict them after late June, forcing many to prepare to move out.
...
The company said the government had not made it aware of “any restrictions or official advice since the Covid-19 pandemic was announced” – and had received no response to requests for it.

Ian



Did Boris ever promise to backdate the ban on evictions?

I doubt it.

Retrospective legislation is very rare.


These people haven't been evicted yet - note the article says it's taking on extra staff to evict "a record number of tenants. Legislation to stop this need no be retrospective just enacted now.