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Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Posted: 14 Feb 2020, 3:52pm
by PH
carpetcleaner wrote:
Labour is not controlled by the unions now. It is controlled by its membership.

That why it is in its current mess.

Well done- weeks after the election Boris has sacked half the cabinet he appointed and his Chancellor has quit, yet you think this thread is about the Labour Party.

Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Posted: 14 Feb 2020, 5:10pm
by 661-Pete
carpetcleaner wrote:I think Labour did so badly in the election because of its membership. That membership is dominated by affluent, middle class people who are strongly pro-EU, and they were responsible for the party's risible stance on Brexit during the election campaign.
Whoa - whoa! You're making a rather big assumption there!

I made use of a joke 'football' quote analogy in a post above; here's another, attributed apparently to Gary Lineker, bless him!
There's no in between, you're either good or bad. We were in between.
Might that not be equally applied to the Labour Party? How about "There's no in-between: the electorate are either pro-Brexit or pro-Remain. Labour were in-between..."
Fair assessment? And on top of that we had the anti-semitism furore - how does that factor into your generalisation?

I don't know how I score under 'affluent' - Mrs P and i together have a reasonable pension income - but I'm indisputably middle-class. Is that so much of a crime? According to you, perhaps, it is. And I am strongly pro-EU - for all the good reasons. But no - wait! - almost forgot: neither Mrs P nor I are members of the Labour Party. We're members of the Green Party as it happens - and we voted Green at the GE.

So it's all our fault after all... :?

Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Posted: 14 Feb 2020, 8:12pm
by Psamathe
carpetcleaner wrote:Boris is likely to be PM for at least 10 years if his opponents concentrate on criticising him rather than on finding some attractive polices to put to the people.

Boris is making a lot of rather bad basic managerial errors - poor (disastrous) management as he out of his deth - which never ends well.

Boris has yet to appreciate he can't run the country alone (nor can Cummings) so he needs a team. When you manage a team you need capable people who can offer something and the managers role becomes one of creating an environment so those people can flourish and thus get the best out of the team. Boris (as many bad/incompetent managers do) is trying to control everything and appointing a team of "yes people", who echo his chosen sound-bites on queue.

I remember back in my days in one company when near the top of a large company I started getting invited into meetings with the Chairman (he started taking an interest in some areas I was working in) and he'd periodically state his preferred way forward and ask my opinion - except it was not his preferred way forward and it was flawed deliberately as he was only checking if I'd blindly agree with is bad proposal (if I was only a "yes person" or if I had the confidence and strength of character to tell him he was wrong. And sometimes be be quite aggressive/assertive/ It was a test as he (board) didn't want yes people but wanted people who could make a proper contribution.

Ian

Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Posted: 14 Feb 2020, 8:54pm
by llayercake
Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?
Easy, it's The Will of The People....

Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Posted: 14 Feb 2020, 9:54pm
by al_yrpal
...they just wanted the Country to move ahead again and look to the only party they believed would do it. Lets hope we start moving in the right direction! One things for sure more cash is needed, watch out for more stealth taxes. :? With 1% interest rates for govt borrowing we will surely be borrowing big time. Thats what the current political manoeuvring is about, breaking the iron grip of the Treasury Mandarins to bow to the will of Boris.

Al

Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Posted: 14 Feb 2020, 10:06pm
by Mike Sales
al_yrpal wrote:...they just wanted the Country to move ahead again and look to the only party they believed would do it. Lets hope we start moving in the right direction! One things for sure more cash is needed, watch out for more stealth taxes. :? With 1% interest rates for govt borrowing we will surely be borrowing big time. Thats what the current political manoeuvring is about, breaking the iron grip of the Treasury Mandarins to bow to the will of Boris.

Al


Interest rates have been below 1% since 2009 but any proposals to borrow to invest for the future were said to be a disastrous idea. The budget had to be balanced at the cost of austerity.

https://www.mortgagestrategy.co.uk/analysis/historical-interest-rates-uk/

Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Posted: 14 Feb 2020, 10:19pm
by PH
al_yrpal wrote:With 1% interest rates for govt borrowing we will surely be borrowing big time. Al

I think you're right, but one of the few firm pledges in the vaguest of manifestos was to not do just that.
It's still not clear what Boris/Dom didn't like about the advisers, I wonder if we'll ever know. It's not uncommon for there to be some friction between No10 & 11, it's probably no bad thing, checks and balances and all that. The idea that everything be run from the PM's office is a bit frightening, it would be whoever the incumbent, though this one more than most.

Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Posted: 14 Feb 2020, 10:21pm
by PH
Mike Sales wrote: The budget had to be balanced at the cost of austerity.

Yes, but Boris has always been against austerity, he's told us so, therefor it must be true.

Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Posted: 14 Feb 2020, 10:47pm
by al_yrpal
I think you're right, but one of the few firm pledges in the vaguest of manifestos was to not do just that.


But...if more taxes are gathered you can spend more on public services like the NHS, plus cheap borrowed money is spent only on infrastructure that would make sense. HS2 comes into the latter category.

Al

Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Posted: 14 Feb 2020, 11:11pm
by PH
al_yrpal wrote:
I think you're right, but one of the few firm pledges in the vaguest of manifestos was to not do just that.


But...if more taxes are gathered you can spend more on public services like the NHS, plus cheap borrowed money is spent only on infrastructure that would make sense. HS2 comes into the latter category.

Al

I don't disagree with you, why would I? That's been in every Labour Manifesto since the 1940's.
All I'm saying is if they increase borrowing after expressly stating they wouldn't, it's another example of their dishonesty.

Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Posted: 14 Feb 2020, 11:21pm
by PH
Just read elsewhere, Boris in the run up to the election
“I’m going to give you an absolutely categorical assurance that I will keep Sajid Javid as my chancellor. How about that? I think he’s a great guy and he’s doing a fantastic job and I’m proud to count him as a colleague.”

Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Posted: 14 Feb 2020, 11:29pm
by PDQ Mobile
Mike Sales wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:...they just wanted the Country to move ahead again and look to the only party they believed would do it. Lets hope we start moving in the right direction! One things for sure more cash is needed, watch out for more stealth taxes. :? With 1% interest rates for govt borrowing we will surely be borrowing big time. Thats what the current political manoeuvring is about, breaking the iron grip of the Treasury Mandarins to bow to the will of Boris.

Al


Interest rates have been below 1% since 2009 but any proposals to borrow to invest for the future were said to be a disastrous idea. The budget had to be balanced at the cost of austerity.

https://www.mortgagestrategy.co.uk/analysis/historical-interest-rates-uk/

It is an excellent and correct point from Mike.
The present Govt have got rid of all the moderate one nation Torys (although that is something of a misnomer I grant you).

My analysis is different to "al's".
I think they would prefer to borrow because otherwise they would need to fund stuff from increased taxation!
There is little room left to find more revenue at the bottom now, austerity has seen to that.

The bill for increased borrowing will however ultimately fall to the poorer sections of society.
Because we will be told debt has to be paid, and just watch interest rates rise when the time comes.

So it's the same old nasty party - only worse.
They have plenty of money (billions and billions in fact) but they won't spend any of it on their own nation.

Their patriotism is only as deep as an election soundbite.

Take back control. Ha!

Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Posted: 15 Feb 2020, 7:53am
by Vorpal
al_yrpal wrote:But...if more taxes are gathered you can spend more on public services like the NHS, plus cheap borrowed money is spent only on infrastructure that would make sense. HS2 comes into the latter category.

Al

Borrowed money is only cheap to those who don't have to pay it back.

Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Posted: 15 Feb 2020, 8:31am
by 661-Pete
PH wrote:Just read elsewhere, Boris in the run up to the election
“I’m going to give you an absolutely categorical assurance that I will keep Sajid Javid as my chancellor. How about that? I think he’s a great guy and he’s doing a fantastic job and I’m proud to count him as a colleague.”
That's what's known, in the Mafia at any rate, as the Kiss of Death. I believe the phrase originated with Judas Iscariot. But BoJo probably has a good deal more than £30 to his credit...

Re: Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?

Posted: 15 Feb 2020, 8:37am
by Cunobelin
llayercake wrote:Boris Johnson: Why is a proven liar in power?
Easy, it's The Will of The People....


As with Brexit - it ain't

It is the will of a minority of the people

The other flaw with this mantra is that it totally ignores the unequivocal will of the Scots