Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

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Polisman
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Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Polisman » 13 Dec 2019, 3:14am

Just off to bed, after an interesting evening (watching Turkeys vote for Xmas).

With the SNP likely to take 95% of the seats in Scotland, it's impossible to see how a refusal to allow another referendum is possible. Boris can bluff and bluster all he wants, but tonight's result is a compelling mandate for Independence.

Scotland wants to stay in the EU, and they will not stand for another five years of blistering austerity under a buffoon like Boris. It's that simple. The Scots don't suffer fools, at all. (my brother in law is one, they have form).

I ask the same old question: if Westminster (read Tories) are so confident of their bright future, why deny Scotland its right to decide? What are they so frightened of? If its good enough to have a referendum on Brexit, its certainly good enough to try another independence vote.

The Scots don't want brexit, and they certainly don't want a Tory government. It's only a matter of time, in my opinion. Goodbye old England, its time they were gone.

What good is Scotland to the rUK? Why are they so hell bent on retaining it (cant be because they like haggis and tartan).
Is it the nuclear deterrent (estimates put it at £200 billion to relocate), is it the oil and gas reserves (England have just about none, of either), the insurance industry, the trillions of gallons of water they export to England for free, the country estates? These are going to be the big questions of 2020, as we already know Brexit is another five /ten years to get 'done'.
Last edited by Polisman on 14 Dec 2019, 1:26pm, edited 2 times in total.

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honesty
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Re: Goodbye Old England - It's Time We Were Gone

Postby honesty » 13 Dec 2019, 8:25am

I cant see Boris not allowing a second referendum. From his point of view chop of Scotland and you lose 60 something dissenting voices from Parliament and he gets an even tighter grip. I expect this to happen quite soon... he doesn't care about anything other than power and populism so expect that to be the driving force for anything he does.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Goodbye Old England - It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Tangled Metal » 13 Dec 2019, 9:06am

Won't look good for the conservative and unionist party to cut Scotland off like that. It's always been the most part of 60 dissenting voices in Westminster for decades. Why would they change from a unionist voice now when nothing has changed just the colour behind those dissenting voices?

Johnson won't give the SNP the section 30 they publicly ask b for. That helps the SNP with their politics more than giving them indyref2. Sturgeon can then argue more about how English and Westminster aren't giving Scotland its voice. Actually having the ref might result in a stronger vote against independence, might not, but would tie SNP really want to risk their vote winning argument by actually getting the referendum they ask for?

I think I'm becoming cynical. Blame the years of non stop high politicking we've been observers to.

mattheus
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Re: Goodbye Old England - It's Time We Were Gone

Postby mattheus » 13 Dec 2019, 9:21am

Does anyone know what the data shows for vote share? I couldn't see it in the Exit Poll data :-/

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Cugel
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Re: Goodbye Old England - It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Cugel » 13 Dec 2019, 9:21am

More like, "Hello old England". It'll soon be back to intolerance of every ilk & tittle, open class warfare, jingoism and all the fine sentiments of the Victorian era albeit with no empire to nod to as a badge of Blighty racial superiority.

How long before the first popular war? It'll be the first choice as a cover for some major Tory faux pas or policy of general degradation. Hordes of haters will join up to be foddered, cheering lustily for Olde England as they go.

How long before the ethnic cleansing of WIndrush is amplified to include whole swathes of "others"; those people who are not "one of us"? "Funny" accent? Not a paleface? Off ye go!

How long before the full and popular return of the workhouse, in virtual mode as zero-hour contracts are joined by a swathe of other modes that are exploitative slavery/punishment in some sort of disguise; and the dispossessed "undeserving poor" are given no deserts at all but left to die in various parts of the crumbling infrastructure? The hundreds of today will become hundreds of thousands.

The rule of law is already in rags; justice is now something you have to buy; and costs amounts that require a hedge fund or something similar. The police will soon police only "the dissidents".

Soon the vultures will fly in from over The Atlantic, to pick on the carcass of Britain until all the juicy bits have been torn off and gobbled down. They will be joined by various hyenas and other already filthy rich economic immigrants - all the international scavengers for money - money - money, from Russia, Saudi and various other klepto-countries around the planet.

Jeremiah Cugel, not so much predicting the future as seeing the Victorian undead rise up.

Oldjohnw
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Re: Goodbye Old England - It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Oldjohnw » 13 Dec 2019, 9:26am

mattheus wrote:Does anyone know what the data shows for vote share? I couldn't see it in the Exit Poll data :-/


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng ... dApp_Gmail
John

Tangled Metal
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Re: Goodbye Old England - It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Tangled Metal » 13 Dec 2019, 9:31am

Voter share? Iirc Tories got more seats than voter share, labour kind of level, libdems got less %of seats than voter share as did Brexit party and greens. SNP got more % of seats than voter share.

Can't remember the figures but simply put FPTP favours Tory party but especially SNP. Libdems, greens and Brexit party need PR. Labour will do pretty much the same under either FPTP or PR.

I read those figures (that I can't recall exactly) on another forum so if this rough summary is wrong please correct. It's basically just an impression of the voting than facts.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Goodbye Old England - It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Tangled Metal » 13 Dec 2019, 9:33am

Oldjohnw wrote:
mattheus wrote:Does anyone know what the data shows for vote share? I couldn't see it in the Exit Poll data :-/


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng ... dApp_Gmail

Have you seen any figures that relate share of the vote to share of the seats? Would be interesting to see the reasons for PR in figures.

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Paulatic
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Re: Goodbye Old England - It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Paulatic » 13 Dec 2019, 9:49am

I’ve seen this regarding vote share
The SNP vote share in Scotland is just higher than the Tory vote share in the UK. So if Johnson has just been given a resounding mandate for Brexit, then the SNP has just been given a resounding mandate for Independence.
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Oldjohnw
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Re: Goodbye Old England - It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Oldjohnw » 13 Dec 2019, 10:06am

John

mattheus
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Re: Goodbye Old England - It's Time We Were Gone

Postby mattheus » 13 Dec 2019, 10:28am

Oldjohnw wrote:
mattheus wrote:Does anyone know what the data shows for vote share? I couldn't see it in the Exit Poll data :-/


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng ... dApp_Gmail

Thanks!

Couple of positives there,
the Green party surge (up 60%?), with more votes than Team Brexit,
and a new record number of female MPs (more than half the Labour MPs).

Tangled Metal
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Re: Goodbye Old England - It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Tangled Metal » 13 Dec 2019, 10:33am

It's not the mandate that voter share vs seats won issue affects. It's the system of voting. FPTP works well for conservative and Scottish Nats. Even labour do better than not. It's likely a PR system would give more greens and libdem and even Brexit parties a seat in Westminster.

That's not likely to affect the overall mandates for the nats and conservatives just a smaller one perhaps.

kwackers
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Re: Goodbye Old England - It's Time We Were Gone

Postby kwackers » 13 Dec 2019, 10:41am

mattheus wrote:Couple of positives there,
the Green party surge (up 60%?), with more votes than Team Brexit,
and a new record number of female MPs (more than half the Labour MPs).

I would normally vote Green but tactical voting means I had to vote Labour.

FPTP is such a crap system but as long as it favours those in power then it's never going to change.

djnotts
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Re: Goodbye Old England - It's Time We Were Gone

Postby djnotts » 13 Dec 2019, 11:24am

Cugel wrote:More like, "Hello old England". It'll soon be back to intolerance of every ilk & tittle, open class warfare, jingoism and all the fine sentiments of the Victorian era albeit with no empire to nod to as a badge of Blighty racial superiority.

How long before the first popular war? It'll be the first choice as a cover for some major Tory faux pas or policy of general degradation. Hordes of haters will join up to be foddered, cheering lustily for Olde England as they go.

How long before the ethnic cleansing of WIndrush is amplified to include whole swathes of "others"; those people who are not "one of us"? "Funny" accent? Not a paleface? Off ye go!

How long before the full and popular return of the workhouse, in virtual mode as zero-hour contracts are joined by a swathe of other modes that are exploitative slavery/punishment in some sort of disguise; and the dispossessed "undeserving poor" are given no deserts at all but left to die in various parts of the crumbling infrastructure? The hundreds of today will become hundreds of thousands.

The rule of law is already in rags; justice is now something you have to buy; and costs amounts that require a hedge fund or something similar. The police will soon police only "the dissidents".

Soon the vultures will fly in from over The Atlantic, to pick on the carcass of Britain until all the juicy bits have been torn off and gobbled down. They will be joined by various hyenas and other already filthy rich economic immigrants - all the international scavengers for money - money - money, from Russia, Saudi and various other klepto-countries around the planet.

Jeremiah Cugel, not so much predicting the future as seeing the Victorian undead rise up.


Little one can add - well put and horribly true I fear. Time decent, caring, folk do indeed go, there is no place here for them in the Tories nasty, vicious, vision of the future. Very sadly for me, this will probably include my children. I shall very much miss them and my grandchildren, but I have already told them I shall understand and to not stay on my account.

irc
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Re: Goodbye Old England - It's Time We Were Gone

Postby irc » 13 Dec 2019, 11:59am

By vote share - independence 46% UK 54%

Just like in indyref. Who'd have thunk it?



scotland vote share.jpg