Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

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Polisman
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Polisman » 22 Dec 2019, 4:47pm

pete75 wrote:
Polisman wrote:
pete75 wrote:You seemed to be confusing the percentage of seats won by the SNP with the level of support they had and I repeat you said a vote for the SNP is a vote for independence.
The only stop Brexit parties standing in the GE were the SNP, the Liberals and a few minor parties. Well under 20% of the vote for the whole lot.


You seem to think it clever to try and twist the truth. Clearly one of Boris's children. It was you tried to conflate a general election result with lack of support for Independence.
You're the funniest man on the forum, though I guess you don't know why...

There aren't words enough (or I can readily use in this forum) to describe my pleasure at seeing you hoist yourself on your own ridiculous conflation of two utterly unrelated results.

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Mick F
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Mick F » 22 Dec 2019, 4:51pm

pete75 wrote:BTW I'm not against Scottish independence - I think it would be the best thing for the Scots. I just don't think the GE results in Scotland indicate the clear majority for it you think they do.
Two points, sorry, three.

One, I am against dissolving the UK.
Two, a GE is never a mandate as a clear majority as you so rightly suggest.
Three, I don't think it would be the best thing for the Scots.
Mick F. Cornwall

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al_yrpal
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby al_yrpal » 22 Dec 2019, 4:54pm

All fur coat and no knickers...

Or in the future..

All hat and no cattle :lol:

Al

...IMO independence is up to the Scots. Shame to see Scotland go though.
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. What do you do to make a difference?

pete75
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby pete75 » 22 Dec 2019, 5:03pm

merseymouth wrote:M TTFN MMorning all, I think I can see a case for scrapping the "Barnett Formula", which is weighted to give beneficial funding to Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland in ascending order?
Even in England there is an unfair weighting in favour of the Home Counties, something which the Northern Powerhouse does little to address.
It ain't only the Scots that feel themselves hard done by, but in their case mistakenly!
Level Playing Field? To quote Jim Royle - "My Ar*e".


Apart from London, the South East and the Eats region all parts of the UK have beneficial funding compared to the amount of tax raised there. There is certainly not an unfair weighting in favour of the Home Counties, quite the reverse. They receive considerably less in public spending than they pay in tax.

Polisman
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Polisman » 22 Dec 2019, 5:04pm

al_yrpal wrote:All fur coat and no knickers...

Or in the future..

All hat and no cattle :lol:

Al

...IMO independence is up to the Scots. Shame to see Scotland go though.


Or in English terms:

All Russian Oligarchs and no oil/gas/wind or wave power.

Like Luxembourg, but without the excellent cuisine, and financial passporting agreements. But you still have Jimmy Tarbuck, mushy peas and Spit the Dog. So not all bad.

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Mick F
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Mick F » 22 Dec 2019, 5:08pm

al_yrpal wrote:...IMO independence is up to the Scots. Shame to see Scotland go though.
No it's not.
It's up the the Scottish electorate.

Many many many Scots don't live in Scotland, and they have no say regarding the referendum.
We Brits are a mixture of peoples, as are the people in Scotland of course.
You cannot say that the (possible) referendum result is "up to the Scots".

Yes, it would be a shame for Scotland to leave the UK.
Mick F. Cornwall

pete75
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby pete75 » 22 Dec 2019, 5:11pm

Polisman wrote:
pete75 wrote:
Polisman wrote:


You seem to think it clever to try and twist the truth. Clearly one of Boris's children. It was you tried to conflate a general election result with lack of support for Independence.
You're the funniest man on the forum, though I guess you don't know why...

There aren't words enough (or I can readily use in this forum) to describe my pleasure at seeing you hoist yourself on your own ridiculous conflation of two utterly unrelated results.


It was you who started to say the election result showed a majority fro independence. I was merely pointing out the error of you ways. I'm glad you've got some pleasure from this. At least it's a pleasure which involves more than on person whereas your normal source of it is likely solitary.

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al_yrpal
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby al_yrpal » 22 Dec 2019, 5:11pm

Luxembourg? Den of crooks, tax dodging epicentre of the evil Empire :lol: I'll choose honest mushy peas. :D

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. What do you do to make a difference?

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Paulatic
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Paulatic » 22 Dec 2019, 5:13pm

]
pete75 wrote:BTW I'm not against Scottish independence - I think it would be the best thing for the Scots. I just don't think the GE results in Scotland indicate the clear majority for it you think they do.


1. You are right.
2 . Keep in mind 16 & 17 year olds didn’t vote in the GE
3. Would there have ever been a Union like we have now without the 'Parcel of Rogues' ?
Whatever I am, wherever I am, this is me. This is my life

https://stcleve.wordpress.com/category/lejog/

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al_yrpal
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby al_yrpal » 22 Dec 2019, 5:19pm

Many many many Scots don't live in Scotland, and they have no say regarding the referendum.


I dont agree with that. IMO only the folk who actually live there have the right to make a decision about independence. Do you deny the many other nationalities choosing to live in Scotland a say? Lots of people have left Scotland where is the cutoff point? Can of worms...

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. What do you do to make a difference?

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georgew
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby georgew » 22 Dec 2019, 7:05pm

Mick F wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:...IMO independence is up to the Scots. Shame to see Scotland go though.
No it's not.
It's up the the Scottish electorate.

Many many many Scots don't live in Scotland, and they have no say regarding the referendum.
We Brits are a mixture of peoples, as are the people in Scotland of course.
You cannot say that the (possible) referendum result is "up to the Scots".

Yes, it would be a shame for Scotland to leave the UK.



Indeed.....and why should it be?

I mean just because they live in the country, as did their forefathers, and do have aspirations for their children who will grow up there.....there is absolutely no reason why they should get to decide these things.

Far better to let those living in Cornwall decide these things. :roll:

Listen to yourself.......the shame would be if Scotland decided to stay with England.....a country which has just voted into power a cabal so rightwing that known racists are now rushing to join their Party. Do you really think that any self-respecting country with any values at all would wish to be associated with them?

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Cunobelin
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Cunobelin » 22 Dec 2019, 7:08pm

Quick comparison....

356 out of 650 is a mandate
48 out of 59 isn't

53% of the vote for Brexit is the "Will of the People'
62% of the vote for remain is irrelevant

So long as we are clear on the math

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al_yrpal
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby al_yrpal » 22 Dec 2019, 7:39pm

Cunobelin wrote:Quick comparison....

356 out of 650 is a mandate
48 out of 59 isn't

53% of the vote for Brexit is the "Will of the People'
62% of the vote for remain is irrelevant

So long as we are clear on the math


How do you know that everyone who didn't vote Tory was a Remainer and that all Tories wanted to leave? Incorrect assumption. And it's Maths or are you in favour of even more Americanisms? You aren't clear and you are not proving anything. What is clear though is that voters liked the clarity and certainty guaranteed by an overwhelming vote for the Tories even in staunch Labour areas

Al
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Mick F
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Mick F » 22 Dec 2019, 7:44pm

al_yrpal wrote:
Many many many Scots don't live in Scotland, and they have no say regarding the referendum.


I dont agree with that. IMO only the folk who actually live there have the right to make a decision about independence. Do you deny the many other nationalities choosing to live in Scotland a say? Lots of people have left Scotland where is the cutoff point? Can of worms...

Al
Exactly!
You said it was up to the Scots ............. it's up to the Scottish electorate, not the Scots.

It's just possible - unlikely, I agree - that all the Scottish electorate may not be Scottish at all!
Mick F. Cornwall

Polisman
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Polisman » 22 Dec 2019, 8:12pm

al_yrpal wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:Quick comparison....

356 out of 650 is a mandate
48 out of 59 isn't

53% of the vote for Brexit is the "Will of the People'
62% of the vote for remain is irrelevant

So long as we are clear on the math


How do you know that everyone who didn't vote Tory was a Remainer and that all Tories wanted to leave? Incorrect assumption. And it's Maths or are you in favour of even more Americanisms? You aren't clear and you are not proving anything. What is clear though is that voters liked the clarity and certainty guaranteed by an overwhelming vote for the Tories even in staunch Labour areas

Al


Let's clear something up. 48 out of the 59 seats available went to the SNP? For why? It's simple, the Tories are absolutely loathed in Scotland, as is brexit. It's as simple as that. (62% of Scots voted to Remain in the 2016 referendum). If anything the desire to remain in Europe is even stronger now for the Scots.

Put that growing clamour to remain, with a strong desire to be rid of a right wing tory government, and a long held wish for Independence and there's only one outcome: Scotland leaves the Union. Its the holy trinity of the break up. Sturgeon and her team have been back and forth to Brussels these past three years paving the way for a swift readmission to the EU after they depart the rUK.

The gears have been running ever since the last Indyref, in preparation for the next one. Most commentators agree on one thing: if it's put to the Scots a second time (especially with Brexit running in parallel with Jockxit), they won't say no a second time.

In my opinion it'll be a landslide Yes. Put simply, the Scots don't want what England or Boris has to offer. That's putting it mildly. They would prefer to tell the rUK to Foxtrot Oscar. Which I'm sure will come as no surprise to anyone in Whitehall. I always said that once the ball really starts rolling for Brexit, then Jockxit, and the likely reunification of Ireland are inevitable.