Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

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al_yrpal
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby al_yrpal » 22 Dec 2019, 9:14pm

In my opinion it'll be a landslide


If I remember correctly thats what you said about Corbyn winning the election :lol:

Al
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Polisman
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Polisman » 22 Dec 2019, 9:29pm

al_yrpal wrote:
In my opinion it'll be a landslide


If I remember correctly thats what you said about Corbyn winning the election :lol:

Al


Laugh away. But you and I know both that as soon as Brexit is 'started' on January 31st, then in parallel, in tandem Jockxit makes the same inevitable, Inexorable progress. You can't legitimise one without the other. The United Kingdom was finished the in June 2016. Indyref 2 isnt far away. Irish reunification shortly after.

You know what they say, he who laughs last...

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al_yrpal
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby al_yrpal » 22 Dec 2019, 9:34pm

Precisely :lol: Ciao!

Al
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Tangled Metal
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Tangled Metal » 22 Dec 2019, 9:42pm

It will be interesting times if it happens. UK leaves the EU, Scotland leaves the UK then Scotland joins the EU. Note that's join not rejoin because it is technically only in the EU as part of the UK. For me the real interest will be to see the divergence from the UK and convergence with the EU.

As for unification of the island of Ireland I think there's mechanisms in place for such a referendum but even SF isn't pushing too hard for it. Why? If it happens then I hope it can end all forms of Irish terrorism on the island and all capabilities ended.

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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Tangled Metal » 22 Dec 2019, 10:08pm

Scottish land grab there methinks. Having walked hadrian's wall crossing over from one side to the other numerous times I never got near to Scotland until the last stretch on the solway. Still half a mile into England.

Have you thought of grabbing part of Ireland too? I believe a Scottish giant ran away but Scots are of sterner stuff imho. Plus isn't there strong links with Scots in northern Ireland. :lol:

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Cunobelin
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Cunobelin » 23 Dec 2019, 6:37am

al_yrpal wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:Quick comparison....

356 out of 650 is a mandate
48 out of 59 isn't

53% of the vote for Brexit is the "Will of the People'
62% of the vote for remain is irrelevant

So long as we are clear on the math


How do you know that everyone who didn't vote Tory was a Remainer and that all Tories wanted to leave? Incorrect assumption. And it's Maths or are you in favour of even more Americanisms? You aren't clear and you are not proving anything. What is clear though is that voters liked the clarity and certainty guaranteed by an overwhelming vote for the Tories even in staunch Labour areas

Al



Absolutely correct - There is no point, all I am doing is using the simplest numbers and applying te Brexit / Government logic. Surely if 54% is a landslide for the Tories, one has to question where the line is drawn... does that make the 20% increase in seats and 81% of the total seats for the SNP an even bigger landslide?

No-One knows the reasons why people voted, yet it hasn't stopped the Tories dragging 73% of the UK population out of the EU without their consent

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Cunobelin
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Cunobelin » 23 Dec 2019, 6:49am

THe idea of individual EU status is an interesting concept

An associate membership could provide all the rights of full European citizenship, for example the right to freedom of movement, access to healthcare in the EU and the right to reside in EU member states. Following the reciprocal principle of “no taxation without representation”, these associate citizens would pay some form of annual membership fee directly into the EU budget. In return, EU associate citizens would be able to stand and vote in European elections via trans-national European lists, which we hope will replace the vacant seats of the 73 British MEPs who will be departing in 2019.



One wonders if Scotland could use this as a "back door" to the EU

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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby windmiller » 23 Dec 2019, 7:24am

Cunobelin wrote:THe idea of individual EU status is an interesting concept

An associate membership could provide all the rights of full European citizenship, for example the right to freedom of movement, access to healthcare in the EU and the right to reside in EU member states. Following the reciprocal principle of “no taxation without representation”, these associate citizens would pay some form of annual membership fee directly into the EU budget. In return, EU associate citizens would be able to stand and vote in European elections via trans-national European lists, which we hope will replace the vacant seats of the 73 British MEPs who will be departing in 2019.



One wonders if Scotland could use this as a "back door" to the EU


Spain will veto the membership of Scotland. I read somewhere that the EU plans to abolish the veto. This won't work out well for the weaker member states as the EU will use it to dismantle what little democracy remains and force feed its' programme of control and punishment to disobedient voices.

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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Polisman » 23 Dec 2019, 7:59am

windmiller wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:THe idea of individual EU status is an interesting concept

An associate membership could provide all the rights of full European citizenship, for example the right to freedom of movement, access to healthcare in the EU and the right to reside in EU member states. Following the reciprocal principle of “no taxation without representation”, these associate citizens would pay some form of annual membership fee directly into the EU budget. In return, EU associate citizens would be able to stand and vote in European elections via trans-national European lists, which we hope will replace the vacant seats of the 73 British MEPs who will be departing in 2019.



One wonders if Scotland could use this as a "back door" to the EU


Spain will veto the membership of Scotland. I read somewhere that the EU plans to abolish the veto. This won't work out well for the weaker member states as the EU will use it to dismantle what little democracy remains and force feed its' programme of control and punishment to disobedient voices.


Ah that old chestnut. Let's do another fact check for you Windy. Spain has on numerous occasions said that it categorically won't block Scotlands bid, nothing to do with the EU, just self preservation and a desire to stick it to the Brits. As recently as 2017:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... to-join-eu

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georgew
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby georgew » 23 Dec 2019, 10:00am

Mick F wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:
Many many many Scots don't live in Scotland, and they have no say regarding the referendum.


I dont agree with that. IMO only the folk who actually live there have the right to make a decision about independence. Do you deny the many other nationalities choosing to live in Scotland a say? Lots of people have left Scotland where is the cutoff point? Can of worms...

Al
Exactly!
You said it was up to the Scots ............. it's up to the Scottish electorate, not the Scots.

It's just possible - unlikely, I agree - that all the Scottish electorate may not be Scottish at all!



Now here's the thing........here in Scotland, rather than plaster anti-immigrant slogans on the side of buses and impose policies which discourage immigration.......here we choose to regard those who have decided to make Scotland their home and to bring up their families here as Scottish, with all the rights that this entails, including voting rights.

Now...you do see the difference between this and attitudes now being expressed in England ....right? Which one has the moral high ground do you think, and for what reason are the luminaries of the extreme-right now joining the Tory Party?
Does this policy have the stink of "blood and soil" nationalism? Does it smell of a dislike...a mistrust of "foreigners" or does it signal an openness.... a welcoming attitude to those who wish to make their home here?

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 23 Dec 2019, 10:26am

Hi,
Talking of chestnuts.
73% being dragged out of eu without their consent?
I'm not Einstein but surely those who couldn't be bothered to vote can't be counted can they!

re-joining the EU for the Scots, first the PM's consent, second if the Scots vote leave, next and last re-joining eu will be sometime after the Labour Party has pick themselves up and got back in line.

Oh I nearly forgot what was the currency Scotland intend to use if they ever become independent?
That's the question you need to pose first and get first minister to answer it!

Without it there will never be independence?
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Polisman » 23 Dec 2019, 11:14am

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
Talking of chestnuts.
73% being dragged out of eu without their consent?
I'm not Einstein but surely those who couldn't be bothered to vote can't be counted can they!

re-joining the EU for the Scots, first the PM's consent, second if the Scots vote leave, next and last re-joining eu will be sometime after the Labour Party has pick themselves up and got back in line.

Oh I nearly forgot what was the currency Scotland intend to use if they ever become independent?
That's the question you need to pose first and get first minister to answer it!

Without it there will never be independence?


Printing a currency is no big deal, my preference would be to join the Euro mechanism. Being out outside of the economic union and relying on an avaricious US government to grant non preferential trade agreements is IMO an order of magnitude more vdangerous than joining the Euro.

But hey, keep rolling out these ten year old tropes! Just as irrelevant before the last referendum as they are now.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 23 Dec 2019, 11:31am

hi,
I realise as a Scott this is not what you want to hear.
It's not tropes it's the mechanism for what Scotland will have to do.
Stamping your feet will not get a democratic situation.

If indeed the UK leaving the EU has financial repercussions?
Are you then sure that all but the hardliners for indy2 Will still favour rejoining the eu?

Scottish independence is for the Scots for sure all the voting electorate, I am just outlining the mechanism for getting there.
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby bovlomov » 23 Dec 2019, 11:36am

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:If indeed the UK leaving the EU has financial repercussions?

Negative ones, you mean? Is there any serious commentator suggesting otherwise? Almost all of the Leave campaigners have now conceded there will be. Rees Mogg suggested 50 years to break even. Digby Jones went for 100 years. The only person, as far as I'm aware, still promising immediate gains is the PM (enough said!).

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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Bonefishblues » 23 Dec 2019, 11:44am

I fear it may go down in history as the prime example of national self-harm...