Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

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reohn2
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby reohn2 » 23 Dec 2019, 11:54am

Bonefishblues wrote:I fear it may go down in history as the prime example of national self-harm...

Who for,the Scots or the rest of the UK?
Last edited by reohn2 on 23 Dec 2019, 4:29pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bonefishblues
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Bonefishblues » 23 Dec 2019, 12:01pm

I was meaning UK and that there Brexit, but I'm sure it could be applied more broadly, perhaps.

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horizon
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby horizon » 23 Dec 2019, 1:06pm

My take on Scottish independence is that while it might not yet be the majority view, it is pretty breathtaking that 45% of the Scottish people look in horror at my own country and wish to disassociate themselves from it. Having said that, I don't blame them.
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georgew
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby georgew » 23 Dec 2019, 4:05pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:hi,
I realise as a Scott this is not what you want to hear.
It's not tropes it's the mechanism for what Scotland will have to do.
Stamping your feet will not get a democratic situation.

If indeed the UK leaving the EU has financial repercussions?
Are you then sure that all but the hardliners for indy2 Will still favour rejoining the eu?

Scottish independence is for the Scots for sure all the voting electorate, I am just outlining the mechanism for getting there.



It's kind of you to be concerned for our welfare....it's touching but there is no need ....really.

There are some clever people up here....and like all the Independent countries faced with the same problem, I daresay we will muddle through.

I would have thought that you'd b more concerned about the deficit in your budget when England loses the income from oil.....you know...the same oil that paid for all the unemployed after Thatcher closed down the heavy industries. Again.....you should be scratching your head and wondering exactly where Trident will be situated as that may be a little problem. It would be helpful surely if you could provide some answers.......even an outline would be welcome.

reohn2
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby reohn2 » 23 Dec 2019, 4:30pm

horizon wrote:My take on Scottish independence is that while it might not yet be the majority view, it is pretty breathtaking that 45% of the Scottish people look in horror at my own country and wish to disassociate themselves from it. Having said that, I don't blame them.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 23 Dec 2019, 5:12pm

Hi,
georgew wrote:
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:hi,
I realise as a Scott this is not what you want to hear.
It's not tropes it's the mechanism for what Scotland will have to do.
Stamping your feet will not get a democratic situation.

If indeed the UK leaving the EU has financial repercussions?
Are you then sure that all but the hardliners for indy2 Will still favour rejoining the eu?

Scottish independence is for the Scots for sure all the voting electorate, I am just outlining the mechanism for getting there.



It's kind of you to be concerned for our welfare....it's touching but there is no need ....really.

There are some clever people up here....and like all the Independent countries faced with the same problem, I daresay we will muddle through.

I would have thought that you'd b more concerned about the deficit in your budget when England loses the income from oil.....you know...the same oil that paid for all the unemployed after Thatcher closed down the heavy industries. Again.....you should be scratching your head and wondering exactly where Trident will be situated as that may be a little problem. It would be helpful surely if you could provide some answers.......even an outline would be welcome.

Joke!
I shouldn't be concerned about scots or anything the other side of a border but more concerned about where I live.
Its not you and me or them and us, we virtual plebs cannae change nothing, my opinions are singular mine along with some luck for my future thrown in.
England etc are not concerned about indy2, you have avery long journey to set the wheels in motion..........and then you will have to deal with EU......

Oil is that the dwindling oil you are talking about and the subsidies we pay?

I fear that the scots are also blinded by the long list of free benefits it is being promised?

Trident is for all our safety as a nation, if you want to part you will need to build yours?
Unprotected...................Russia might just be a very close neighbour.

I have nothing to fear I live in England in sunny south :)

There is a big elephant in the room that most don't even know about or would rather it did not exist and its not earthy too.
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windmiller
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby windmiller » 23 Dec 2019, 5:32pm

Polisman wrote:
windmiller wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:THe idea of individual EU status is an interesting concept




One wonders if Scotland could use this as a "back door" to the EU


Spain will veto the membership of Scotland. I read somewhere that the EU plans to abolish the veto. This won't work out well for the weaker member states as the EU will use it to dismantle what little democracy remains and force feed its' programme of control and punishment to disobedient voices.


Ah that old chestnut. Let's do another fact check for you Windy. Spain has on numerous occasions said that it categorically won't block Scotlands bid, nothing to do with the EU, just self preservation and a desire to stick it to the Brits. As recently as 2017:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... to-join-eu


That article is 3 years old and from the Guardian which has printed more fake news than all the other newspapers combined :lol:

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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Oldjohnw » 23 Dec 2019, 5:41pm

windmiller wrote:
Polisman wrote:
windmiller wrote:
Spain will veto the membership of Scotland. I read somewhere that the EU plans to abolish the veto. This won't work out well for the weaker member states as the EU will use it to dismantle what little democracy remains and force feed its' programme of control and punishment to disobedient voices.


Ah that old chestnut. Let's do another fact check for you Windy. Spain has on numerous occasions said that it categorically won't block Scotlands bid, nothing to do with the EU, just self preservation and a desire to stick it to the Brits. As recently as 2017:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... to-join-eu


That article is 3 years old and from the Guardian which has printed more fake news than all the other newspapers combined :lol:


Best news I've heard in a long time, windmiller. The Guardian reported that the Tories had won the 2019 GE. I can sleep soundly tonight knowing that this is fake news.

Thanks for this!
John

windmiller
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby windmiller » 23 Dec 2019, 6:05pm

Oldjohnw wrote:
windmiller wrote:
Polisman wrote:
Ah that old chestnut. Let's do another fact check for you Windy. Spain has on numerous occasions said that it categorically won't block Scotlands bid, nothing to do with the EU, just self preservation and a desire to stick it to the Brits. As recently as 2017:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... to-join-eu


That article is 3 years old and from the Guardian which has printed more fake news than all the other newspapers combined :lol:


Best news I've heard in a long time, windmiller. The Guardian reported that the Tories had won the 2019 GE. I can sleep soundly tonight knowing that this is fake news.

Thanks for this!


Well that explains the stand point of many remainers in here :lol:

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georgew
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby georgew » 24 Dec 2019, 10:02am

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
georgew wrote:
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:hi,
I realise as a Scott this is not what you want to hear.
It's not tropes it's the mechanism for what Scotland will have to do.
Stamping your feet will not get a democratic situation.

If indeed the UK leaving the EU has financial repercussions?
Are you then sure that all but the hardliners for indy2 Will still favour rejoining the eu?

Scottish independence is for the Scots for sure all the voting electorate, I am just outlining the mechanism for getting there.



It's kind of you to be concerned for our welfare....it's touching but there is no need ....really.

There are some clever people up here....and like all the Independent countries faced with the same problem, I daresay we will muddle through.

I would have thought that you'd b more concerned about the deficit in your budget when England loses the income from oil.....you know...the same oil that paid for all the unemployed after Thatcher closed down the heavy industries. Again.....you should be scratching your head and wondering exactly where Trident will be situated as that may be a little problem. It would be helpful surely if you could provide some answers.......even an outline would be welcome.

Joke!
I shouldn't be concerned about scots or anything the other side of a border but more concerned about where I live.
Its not you and me or them and us, we virtual plebs cannae change nothing, my opinions are singular mine along with some luck for my future thrown in.
England etc are not concerned about indy2, you have avery long journey to set the wheels in motion..........and then you will have to deal with EU......

Oil is that the dwindling oil you are talking about and the subsidies we pay?

I fear that the scots are also blinded by the long list of free benefits it is being promised?

Trident is for all our safety as a nation, if you want to part you will need to build yours?
Unprotected...................Russia might just be a very close neighbour.

I have nothing to fear I live in England in sunny south :)

There is a big elephant in the room that most don't even know about or would rather it did not exist and its not earthy too.



You really do have to find some new material. It does raise the question..... that if we are such a burden to the UK.....then why all the efforts to stop us leaving?

Those of us who are perhaps more politically sophisticated....a group which contains the UK's military chiefs.......know that the sole reason for the nuclear deterrent is that it entitles us to a seat on the Security Council with the big boys.....you know....in keeping with our imperial past and all that.

irc
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby irc » 24 Dec 2019, 12:07pm

georgew wrote: It does raise the question..... that if we are such a burden to the UK.....then why all the efforts to stop us leaving?


What efforts? We had a referendum in 2014 and voted to stay. It was a referendum not a neverendum. It was divisive and distracted from other govt business. In the 2019 UK general election 55% voted for unionist parties. Not juistification for a referendum.

If Brexit is this excuse (another will be along soon) then the logical thing is to wait and see exactly how Brexit pans out before having another referendum.

The next referendum should have a minimum time before any future referendums in the text as verbal assurances from SNP politicians of it being a once in a generation vote are worthless.

https://twitter.com/scottories/status/1 ... 90?lang=en

Mike Sales
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Mike Sales » 24 Dec 2019, 12:13pm

irc wrote:
If Brexit is this excuse (another will be along soon) then the logical thing is to wait and see exactly how Brexit pans out before having another referendum.



How long will that be?

The next referendum should have a minimum time before any future referendums in the text


And perhaps it should be explicit whether it is advisory or binding, majority needed and minimum turn out to make it so.

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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Polisman » 24 Dec 2019, 12:16pm

The relatives I have (in Aberdeen and Edinburgh) rarely talk about, (or think about for that matter), England. To them its as foreign a country as Spain or Brazil. Scotland is pretty much self sufficient for everything.

And though its true that Scottish oil money bailed out England after the recession and built the city of London in the 80's, its not really a major part of the economy. Insurance, bio-industry and renewables are much more important now.

I find it funny to observe what non Scots imagine the country to be like. Its 100% different to many preconceptions, and I think that in the event of independence (Jockxit now surely assured, running in tandem with exactly the same machinery of Brexit) they will have little to worry about in terms of economic growth.

In fact, as a border country to England, who will be out of the EU, just as Scotland re-enters they could find themselves on the side of a very favourable trade outcome. Especially when essentials like oil, petrol, gas, cars and electricity take a price hike as England 'sorts out' their own trade deal disasters.

Like Ireland and NI, there could be a lot of people on the border who profit from the calamity of a no deal or bad deal Brexit. What if petrol was 15% cheaper over the border in an independent Scotland, how far would you drive to fill up?

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Paulatic
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Paulatic » 24 Dec 2019, 12:55pm

irc wrote:[

What efforts? We had a referendum in 2014 and voted to stay. It was a referendum not a neverendum. It was divisive and distracted from other govt business. In the 2019 UK general election 55% voted for unionist parties. Not juistification for a referendum.


So what would be justification for a referendum?
Keep in mind the young people of Scotland didn’t get the chance to vote in a broken FPTP system.

quote="irc"]
If Brexit is this excuse (another will be along soon) then the logical thing is to wait and see exactly how Brexit pans out before having another referendum.

[/quote]

Why does there have to be an excuse?

irc wrote:
The next referendum should have a minimum time before any future referendums in the text as verbal assurances from SNP politicians of it being a once in a generation vote are worthless.


Finally I can agree with you, let’s get it written down and let’s stick to the agreement. Can you tell me what happened to the assurances from the last ref? You know the one about staying in Europe and wasn’t there mention of more devolved powers? So how does that fit with the current uk gov wanting to take away powers?
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brynpoeth
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby brynpoeth » 24 Dec 2019, 1:01pm

The snp got most of the seats in Scotland but only 45%* of the votes, very unfair
Time to modernise the voting system, end fptp, didnae 'Europe' want to force pr on the uk?

* does this mean 55% of votes cast were against 'independence'?
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