Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 1 Jan 2020, 9:53pm

Hi,
For those who are British definitely worth watching.
For the scots I would of thought mandatory viewing, you won't be disappointed.
Better entertainment than the rubbish BBC (disturbing, in title very poor programs) over the hols.

WSM 2019 CH5 just aired, +1 ends at 22.00 today, no need for any negatives on the subject unless you want to.

Happy new year scots :)

No spoilers guys :wink:
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Polisman
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Polisman » 2 Jan 2020, 2:04pm

Quality bit of telly. But you can view the same up close and personal every year At the Scottish Highland games circuit. An experience never to be forgotten. And anyone can participate I in the events, I won a sack race a few years back, and a bottle of Glenmorangie for the reward. Now that's what I call competitive sport :lol:

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horizon
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby horizon » 2 Jan 2020, 4:32pm

irc wrote:
If a Scottish indyref gives a 50.1 yes vote then we will leave. One thing at a time though. Brexit first. Then the 2021 Scottish elections. Then if the SNP get a majority maybe early in the 2024 to 2029 Tory govt there will be indyref 2. It's been 300 years. Why the rush?


I agree. This is a big issue (obviously) and, unlike Brexit, shouldn't be rushed. It should also have the overwhelming (in standard political terms) support of the Scottish people. 2021 elections very important, looking-very-good polls needed as well. I would also like to see further powers transferred to Edinburgh in the meantime so that the Scots can get a taste of independence (or even enough of it!) before voting on it.

What to me matters most though is that Scotland matures further as a country: it is already becoming IMV a shining beacon to the rest of the UK and the real hallmark of statehood (a distinct set of values and identity) is starting to emerge. At that point, independence will be a natural and obvious thing, accepted even if not endorsed by all Scots, rather than a pointless haggle about percentage points.
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Polisman » 3 Jan 2020, 9:17am

irc wrote:
Cunobelin wrote:
Bonefishblues wrote:Why is 54% particularly significant?



If a Scottish indyref gives a 50.1 yes vote then we will leave. One thing at a time though. Brexit first. Then the 2021 Scottish elections. Then if the SNP get a majority maybe early in the 2024 to 2029 Tory govt there will be indyref 2. It's been 300 years. Why the rush?


There's no particular rush, other than the Scots weary experience of ten years of Tory government, cuts and austerity, all which have ravaged the country. The prospect of another 5 years of the same and being dragged out of Europe against their collective will had made the Scots angry and impatient. I could see a new referendum either before the end of this year, or the middle of next.

It makes no difference which, as the transition period is absolutely bound to be extended by at least a year, if not three come December 31st.

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 3 Jan 2020, 11:51am

Hi,
Will you bet on it?

The uk was dragged out what's this indy scotland voted down last time.

The eu are now mumbling on completion dec 20.
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Paulatic » 3 Feb 2020, 8:34am

Tories continually state there is no appetite for Independence in Scotland. Many Tories are also keen to point out we are kept people in Scotland.
If both those statements are true why on earth is Boris launching a £5million pound anti independence advertising blitz on Scotland?

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/po ... z-scotland
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby merseymouth » 3 Feb 2020, 9:22am

Oh Dear, Brexit Thread Mk3! If in no doubt - Bellyache. MM

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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Tangled Metal » 3 Feb 2020, 9:38am

Old question but I've been catching up on this thread.

Is it 48 SNP MPs out of 59 or 650 since they're sitting in Westminster where there's 650 MPs in total? It's a mandate of sorts but since they've been voted in to represent their constituents in Westminster that is where their individual votes are one per mp out of 650 total MPs. Technically that's the figures that give the SNPs influence in Westminster. 7.3% of MPs. Do they deserve more power and influence than that figure gives them? I'm 50:50 on that. I think it could but should it?

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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Oldjohnw » 3 Feb 2020, 9:57am

merseymouth wrote:Oh Dear, Brexit Thread Mk3! If in no doubt - Bellyache. MM


?
John

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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Paulatic » 3 Feb 2020, 9:58am

merseymouth wrote:Oh Dear, Brexit Thread Mk3! If in no doubt - Bellyache. MM


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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Paulatic » 3 Feb 2020, 10:20am

Tangled Metal wrote:Old question but I've been catching up on this thread.

Is it 48 SNP MPs out of 59 or 650 since they're sitting in Westminster where there's 650 MPs in total? It's a mandate of sorts but since they've been voted in to represent their constituents in Westminster that is where their individual votes are one per mp out of 650 total MPs. Technically that's the figures that give the SNPs influence in Westminster. 7.3% of MPs. Do they deserve more power and influence than that figure gives them? I'm 50:50 on that. I think it could but should it?


I would think having a 2 tier system of power and influence at WM sounds unworkable in its current configuration.
Whilst WM is broken in failing to represent everyone the Union is also broken and unequal.

The Times are saying it’s good for the people of Ireland to have a vote on a unified Ireland. In the same breath they are saying the people of England should be allowed a vote on an Independent Scotland. There lies the problem with the current union.
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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 3 Feb 2020, 10:22am

Hi,
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics ... dependence

“It will also be clear that a future in Europe can only be achieved by Scotland becoming an independent country - and it is hope of a better future that must now be our focus.”
none of us have a problem with that at all.
But –
Number one, you need to have another independence referendum in Scotland first.
Number two, to gain independence you will also need to specify and use/Plan to use your own currency?
Number three, maybe that should've been number one, as Scottish MPs Who can also vote in UK Parliament, will also need the approval of the UK p.m.

"You cannot have your cake and eat it too"
Maybe if the Scottish people actually want independence, that should be put to the whole of the UK?

while Scottish MPs can vote on UK rulings, they cannot simply decide their own destiny.

Give up representing and voting things down in the UK and then they can decide their own destiny?

"The SNP chief and ardent Remainer has ordered civil servants to continue to fly the colours of the EU over St Andrew’s House in Edinburgh after the UK finally leaves the bloc on January 31 at 11pm (GMT), according to the Daily Telegraph. The EU flag will fly high over the Scottish Government’s administrative base - over the weekend - despite the Scotland no longer being members of the European Union"


I wonder what the EU gov think of this.
And how long it will be before they will be ordered to take the EU flag down.
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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby irc » 3 Feb 2020, 10:47am

Paulatic wrote:The Times are saying it’s good for the people of Ireland to have a vote on a unified Ireland. In the same breath they are saying the people of England should be allowed a vote on an Independent Scotland. There lies the problem with the current union.


So are they saying Northern Ireland could vote to join Ireland and Ireland could say no thanks we don't want you?

The Scotland question is different as it is whether we should be independent not whether we should leave one country and join with another. So IMO no justification for any English say in a referendum.

What would be interesting would be the post yes negotiations. Given the fact the SNP govt can go hundreds of millions over budgetjust getting two small ferries built and one hospital built I am frankly terrified to think what a mess they would make of setting up Scotttish replacements for everything currently done at a UK level. At the same time as raising taxes and cutting expenditure to meet a post Barnett formula budget.

In any case, as I have said before, there should be no indyref 2 until Brexit has been done and bedded in for a few years. We have been in the UK for for 300 years, let,s wait and see exactly what sort of UK we are leaving (or not) before voting.

This has the secondary benefit of letting the SNP concentrate on the day job or running Scotland better for a year or two.

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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Tangled Metal » 3 Feb 2020, 1:04pm

If Scotland has issues due to how the SNP have been running things then would independence be a good idea? What I mean is stabilise the issues over poor performance in the state sector that's under Scottish before putting Scotland under even more strain that independence process will cause.

Look at Brexit. The economic damage that caused will probably be caused on a newly independent Scotland in a slightly different scale due to the size difference between uk and Scotland. Can Scotland take such an economic impact without causing more damage to public sector?

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Re: Goodbye Old England - Jockxit. It's Time We Were Gone

Postby Paulatic » 3 Feb 2020, 1:24pm

irc wrote: Given the fact the SNP govt can go hundreds of millions over budgetjust getting two small ferries built and one hospital built I am frankly terrified to think what a mess they would make of setting up Scotttish replacements for everything currently done at a UK level. At the same time as raising taxes and cutting expenditure to meet a post Barnett formula budget.

Given that irc sometimes wears restrictive glasses :D
You must have heard about HS2 I thought that was billions over budget? Or the Brexit ferries £50m for nothing
Or £100m on advertising telling us to get ready for Brexit. Yes we can all find examples of poor management and misspending. We all have the option to dwell on them or be optimistic and believe in what could be achieved.
Compare with what Scotland HAS delivered (vs England & HS2) over the past 15 years
1) 20% reduction in fastest journey time between 2 key cities
2) trains 33-50% more carriages on 5+ routes between these cities
3) all 5 routes electrified
4) 4 routes with standard fleet of new electric trains 1 route with refurbished fleet
5) displaced diesels to Northern (on time) & extending on some Scotrail services by 50%
6) trains (10) rapidly secured when new train problem delayed delivery
7) resilience of 15tph each way over 5 routes
8) enabled 6 month full closure of main station in Glasgow, whilst trains ran to alternative platforms/stations (counters all the threats about rail severance being required if HS2 not built - there are potentially 2x 125mph 4-track diversion routes to Midlands/North, using any of 4 London termini

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