Why Couldnt the Red Brick Wall stand Corbyn?

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mercalia
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Why Couldnt the Red Brick Wall stand Corbyn?

Postby mercalia » 15 Dec 2019, 10:24am

Listening and reading reports, I keep on hearing that those ex-labour voters of the Red Brick Wall in the north who voted for lying Boris said that they couldnt vote for Corbyn, they couldnt stand the man. I am rather puzzled by this - Many people on this forum think on the contrary that should have been reserved for Boris? Any ideas?

I wish the media had investigated this rather than keep on reporting fred or mavis bloggs saying they cant stand the man and could never vote for him.
Last edited by mercalia on 15 Dec 2019, 10:31am, edited 1 time in total.

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Mick F
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Re: Why Couldnt the Red Brick Wall stand Corbyn?

Postby Mick F » 15 Dec 2019, 10:28am

The media seems to have forgotten that countless thousands of people elected him as leader. Even people joined the Labour party specifically to vote for him. The whole of the Labour party are able to vote for their leader.

The MPs can't complain. The PEOPLE voted him in.
Mick F. Cornwall

kwackers
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Re: Why Couldnt the Red Brick Wall stand Corbyn?

Postby kwackers » 15 Dec 2019, 10:34am

Most seem to have fallen for the usual stuff that was continually trotted out - at least every person I know and every social media post I read that claimed they couldn't support him said the same things.

He's a terrorist sympathiser.
He'll bankrupt the country.
He's antisemitic.

Not related to Corbyn but I know my local MP got a hammering for "not supporting brexit", anti-democratic etc.

Then there's the issue of other labour party mp's stabbing him in the back.

Beyond that I don't get it.
A man of principle or a comedian.
Hard to believe we were talking about a prime minister here.

mercalia
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Re: Why Couldnt the Red Brick Wall stand Corbyn?

Postby mercalia » 15 Dec 2019, 10:35am

One answer ( I didnt want to say this, let some one else get the flak -Dr Rob Ford a professor of politics at Manchester University)


This set the pattern for the night: a general slump in Labour support, with huge swings to the Conservatives in older, white, working-class urban seats with many voters who left school with little in the way of educational qualifications. Brexit was a key driver of these shifts. The higher the Leave share, the greater the Tory gain, rising from a modest two-point swing in seats with a Leave vote below 45% to a whopping eight-point swing in seats where 60% or more voted Leave in 2016.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/15/britains-new-political-landscape?utm_term=RWRpdG9yaWFsX0d1YXJkaWFuVG9kYXlVS19XZWVrZW5kLTE5MTIxNQ%3D%3D&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTUK_email&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayUK

I wonder to what extent the image of the London/Metropolitan Intellectual Socialist was to blame? So Education "class" outranked "economic class" in the case of Corbyn? They could understand ( so they thought ) Boris as his manner was hardly intellectual?. Corbyn comes across as your typical phlegmatic( higher) educated person ( not one of "us")?


But all isnt rosey for Boris?


The harder task comes after that. Johnson’s party may be united (at last) over Brexit, but the places it represents are now drawn from opposite sides of a deeply divided nation. The newly elected Conservative MPs represent some of the poorest parts of the country, joining party veterans who represent some of the wealthiest seats. The government will face a new pressure to spend and invest from the party’s new MPs, who will want to show that “getting Brexit done” delivers some tangible results for constituents in their marginal seats. But big spending runs very much against the ideological grain for the Conservative party, and the challenges such seats face after decades of stagnation and neglect cannot realistically be addressed in a single term of government. Voters who discover that Brexit brings little positive change to their lives may soon turn against a party they have long disliked and still distrust.

One could hope as those voters who left school with little in the way of educational qualifications die out and are replaced by the young, things can improve for Labour, just as the membership of the party has swelled with new young people?
Last edited by mercalia on 15 Dec 2019, 11:16am, edited 5 times in total.

roubaixtuesday
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Re: Why Couldnt the Red Brick Wall stand Corbyn?

Postby roubaixtuesday » 15 Dec 2019, 11:00am

I heard one of the new Tory MPs (warrington south) saying there was no contradiction between more investment in his constituency and cutting tax.

This delusion is every bit as strong as anything in the Labour left.

It is unbridgeable, and it will be the tax cuts that win.

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bovlomov
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Re: Why Couldnt the Red Brick Wall stand Corbyn?

Postby bovlomov » 15 Dec 2019, 11:08am

roubaixtuesday wrote:I heard one of the new Tory MPs (warrington south) saying there was no contradiction between more investment in his constituency and cutting tax.

This delusion is every bit as strong as anything in the Labour left.

It is unbridgeable, and it will be the tax cuts that win.

Did he use the term 'investment'? Or did he say he wanted the UK to live beyond its means, and that he had a childish wish-list for improving services, and it all relied on the magic money tree?

These people are the most appalling hypocrites.

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Re: Why Couldnt the Red Brick Wall stand Corbyn?

Postby roubaixtuesday » 15 Dec 2019, 11:16am

bovlomov wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:I heard one of the new Tory MPs (warrington south) saying there was no contradiction between more investment in his constituency and cutting tax.

This delusion is every bit as strong as anything in the Labour left.

It is unbridgeable, and it will be the tax cuts that win.

Did he use the term 'investment'? Or did he say he wanted the UK to live beyond its means, and that he had a childish wish-list for improving services, and it all relied on the magic money tree?

These people are the most appalling hypocrites.


Possibly. Or maybe just like many of the Brexit brigade they actually believe their own propaganda, which in this case was that with a strong economy you can have both investment and tax cuts. This is obvious bullocks, but he sounded sincere to me FWIW.

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bovlomov
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Re: Why Couldnt the Red Brick Wall stand Corbyn?

Postby bovlomov » 15 Dec 2019, 11:38am

roubaixtuesday wrote:Possibly. Or maybe just like many of the Brexit brigade they actually believe their own propaganda, which in this case was that with a strong economy you can have both investment and tax cuts. This is obvious bullocks, but he sounded sincere to me FWIW.

If he is sincere he should have an answer to the question, why a pound spent by the Tories is an investment while a pound spent by Labour is a childish waste.

It seems to me that, in my lifetime at least, a lot of spending has been improvised in a crisis, whether it's paying for unemployment, wars or Brexit. This seems to be Johnson's tactic as well. Surely a wise investment is made to prevent the crisis in the first place. It's more efficient to maintain a roof, or at least repair the leaks as they appear, than wait for the roof to collapse before looking to see what's wrong.

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Re: Why Couldnt the Red Brick Wall stand Corbyn?

Postby reohn2 » 15 Dec 2019, 12:15pm

kwackers wrote:Most seem to have fallen for the usual stuff that was continually trotted out - at least every person I know and every social media post I read that claimed they couldn't support him said the same things.

He's a terrorist sympathiser.
He'll bankrupt the country.
He's antisemitic.

Not related to Corbyn but I know my local MP got a hammering for "not supporting brexit", anti-democratic etc.

Then there's the issue of other labour party mp's stabbing him in the back.

Beyond that I don't get it.

That sums it up for me too,likewise my MP Jo Platt lost her seat too

A man of principle or a comedian.
Hard to believe we were talking about a prime minister here

Quite,the people seem to be hard of thinking IMHO.
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reohn2
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Re: Why Couldnt the Red Brick Wall stand Corbyn?

Postby reohn2 » 15 Dec 2019, 12:19pm

roubaixtuesday wrote:I heard one of the new Tory MPs (warrington south) saying there was no contradiction between more investment in his constituency and cutting tax.

This delusion is every bit as strong as anything in the Labour left.

It is unbridgeable, and it will be the tax cuts that win.

Unfortunately you're right,but it was the charachter assination of Corbyn and Brexit that won it for the Tories,the country will now reap the whirlwind.
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reohn2
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Re: Why Couldnt the Red Brick Wall stand Corbyn?

Postby reohn2 » 15 Dec 2019, 12:22pm

bovlomov wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:Possibly. Or maybe just like many of the Brexit brigade they actually believe their own propaganda, which in this case was that with a strong economy you can have both investment and tax cuts. This is obvious bullocks, but he sounded sincere to me FWIW.

If he is sincere he should have an answer to the question, why a pound spent by the Tories is an investment while a pound spent by Labour is a childish waste.

It seems to me that, in my lifetime at least, a lot of spending has been improvised in a crisis, whether it's paying for unemployment, wars or Brexit. This seems to be Johnson's tactic as well. Surely a wise investment is made to prevent the crisis in the first place. It's more efficient to maintain a roof, or at least repair the leaks as they appear, than wait for the roof to collapse before looking to see what's wrong.

Spot on!
It seems too many are prepared to complain about the roof leaking than pay to do a proper job to fix it,they'd rather a employ cowboy roofing firm who tell them they'll fix it whilst the housholder is still getting wet as they hand over the money.
The cowboys call it the trickle down theory,I call it being pisssed on from a great height whilst being told the roof's now in perfect order.
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roubaixtuesday
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Re: Why Couldnt the Red Brick Wall stand Corbyn?

Postby roubaixtuesday » 15 Dec 2019, 12:32pm

reohn2 wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:I heard one of the new Tory MPs (warrington south) saying there was no contradiction between more investment in his constituency and cutting tax.

This delusion is every bit as strong as anything in the Labour left.

It is unbridgeable, and it will be the tax cuts that win.

Unfortunately you're right,but it was the charachter assination of Corbyn and Brexit that won it for the Tories,the country will now reap the whirlwind.


Don't fall into the trap of believing your own propaganda.

Corbyn for labour was the equivalent of putting Rees-Mogg in charge of the Tories. They'd have been eviscerated.

Corbyn, for anyone outside of his immediate fan club, was obviously utterly inadequate to the task from the very start.

Treating the loss in 2017 as a famous victory sealed Labour's fate; pretending, as Corbyn now is, that labour "won the argument" in 2019 is absolute, delusional folly.

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horizon
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Re: Why Couldnt the Red Brick Wall stand Corbyn?

Postby horizon » 15 Dec 2019, 12:42pm

mercalia wrote:Listening and reading reports, I keep on hearing that those ex-labour voters of the Red Brick Wall in the north who voted for lying Boris said that they couldnt vote for Corbyn, they couldnt stand the man. I am rather puzzled by this - Many people on this forum think on the contrary that should have been reserved for Boris? Any ideas?



You could try the parallel thread:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=134110
The experience of travel is something that you have to pay for but can never buy. Ho Ri Zon Chinese philosopher

Carlton green
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Re: Why Couldnt the Red Brick Wall stand Corbyn?

Postby Carlton green » 15 Dec 2019, 12:48pm

roubaixtuesday wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:I heard one of the new Tory MPs (warrington south) saying there was no contradiction between more investment in his constituency and cutting tax.

This delusion is every bit as strong as anything in the Labour left.

It is unbridgeable, and it will be the tax cuts that win.

Unfortunately you're right,but it was the charachter assination of Corbyn and Brexit that won it for the Tories,the country will now reap the whirlwind.


Don't fall into the trap of believing your own propaganda.

Corbyn for labour was the equivalent of putting Rees-Mogg in charge of the Tories. They'd have been eviscerated.

Corbyn, for anyone outside of his immediate fan club, was obviously utterly inadequate to the task from the very start.

Treating the loss in 2017 as a famous victory sealed Labour's fate; pretending, as Corbyn now is, that labour "won the argument" in 2019 is absolute, delusional folly.


That’s not a message that will be welcomed on this (I believe left leaning) forum but in my view it’s a very valid one. Labour’s current hard left course doesn’t reflect what the bulk of real people want and hence the election result. Too many folk on-line live in their own bubble.

reohn2
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Re: Why Couldnt the Red Brick Wall stand Corbyn?

Postby reohn2 » 15 Dec 2019, 12:48pm

roubaixtuesday wrote:
reohn2 wrote:
roubaixtuesday wrote:I heard one of the new Tory MPs (warrington south) saying there was no contradiction between more investment in his constituency and cutting tax.

This delusion is every bit as strong as anything in the Labour left.

It is unbridgeable, and it will be the tax cuts that win.

Unfortunately you're right,but it was the charachter assination of Corbyn and Brexit that won it for the Tories,the country will now reap the whirlwind.


Don't fall into the trap of believing your own propaganda.

Corbyn for labour was the equivalent of putting Rees-Mogg in charge of the Tories. They'd have been eviscerated.

Corbyn, for anyone outside of his immediate fan club, was obviously utterly inadequate to the task from the very start.

Treating the loss in 2017 as a famous victory sealed Labour's fate; pretending, as Corbyn now is, that labour "won the argument" in 2019 is absolute, delusional folly.


I believe Corbyn to be what he has been all along,a truthful and honest politician and that the UK public isn't ever going to believe because he's too radical for a fearful working class who've been peddled endless lies for too long and hated by the rich because they would lose out on taxes.
YVMV until proven otherwise I'll stick to that belief.
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