The next Labour Leader

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Oldjohnw
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Re: The next Labour Leader

Postby Oldjohnw » 18 Feb 2020, 6:10pm

Can't help. I've never voted Labour and as things are am not likely to.

The party appears to be going steadily mad. The Tories have already gone mad.

At least Labour still has some decent public servants. Johnson excommunicated the decent Tory MPs.
John

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al_yrpal
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Re: The next Labour Leader

Postby al_yrpal » 18 Feb 2020, 6:47pm

I have watched and listened to the various candidates and not been confident that any of them can lead an effective opposition that could be a credible alternative to the Tories. Its very sad.

Unfortunately, under the present system if your vote isnt for Labour or the Tories its largely a wasted vote. The system need to change.

Al
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Carlton green
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Re: The next Labour Leader

Postby Carlton green » 18 Feb 2020, 6:59pm

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
For the sake of democracy, (this topic has gone cold), but we need at least one opposing party's of the gov?

For me the leader vote is taking too long to be constructive in building a different party to the Tories.
Bearing in mind that all the candidates are saying that labour did not get it wrong, just did not connect, words to that effect?
It appears to me cynical self that no candidate whats to upset their core of supporters?

So we are afraid that we will all be under Tories for at least the next 15 years, its not good is it?

For the sake of democracy.

For those who have always been labour supporters what do yo think?


I’m not a regular Labour supporter but might lend them my vote under particular circumstances. If Labour are serious about becoming the party of Government again then IMHO the most likely (but still poor odds) of the current candidates to achieve that is Keir Starmer. However I wouldn’t be surprised if Party Members chose someone more left wing (than Keir) and don’t rate the Labour Party’s chances of winning anything much until they return to both much more middle ground policies and the selection of middle ground Candidates. I wish Kier Starmer well and hope that he’ll be effective in holding the Government to account.

My estimation is that if the party really wants to win a general election then to do so it needs to both centre itself to the right of Kier and select someone more like Blair to lead it. It is possible for Labour to win again, and with a large majority, but (IMHO) for them to do so requires a massive shift on their part.

hjd10
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Re: The next Labour Leader

Postby hjd10 » 19 Feb 2020, 4:53pm

al_yrpal wrote:I have watched and listened to the various candidates and not been confident that any of them can lead an effective opposition that could be a credible alternative to the Tories. Its very sad.

Unfortunately, under the present system if your vote isnt for Labour or the Tories its largely a wasted vote. The system need to change.

Al

All the the potential new leaders appear to be thinking about carrying on with the polices that turned the voters off? Why would you continue to do that?

pete75
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Re: The next Labour Leader

Postby pete75 » 19 Feb 2020, 5:15pm

al_yrpal wrote:I have watched and listened to the various candidates and not been confident that any of them can lead an effective opposition that could be a credible alternative to the Tories. Its very sad.

Unfortunately, under the present system if your vote isnt for Labour or the Tories its largely a wasted vote. The system need to change.

Al


Cummins, via his puppet Johnson, is our master for the next five years at least. There is an 80+ majority so there's little if anything an opposition party can do to oppose his rule. They can't even question the man in parliament because he's not a member of it.

Psamathe
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Re: The next Labour Leader

Postby Psamathe » 19 Feb 2020, 5:31pm

pete75 wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:I have watched and listened to the various candidates and not been confident that any of them can lead an effective opposition that could be a credible alternative to the Tories. Its very sad.

Unfortunately, under the present system if your vote isnt for Labour or the Tories its largely a wasted vote. The system need to change.

Al


Cummins, via his puppet Johnson, is our master for the next five years at least. There is an 80+ majority so there's little if anything an opposition party can do to oppose his rule. They can't even question the man in parliament because he's not a member of it.

But with a better (than Corbyn) leader who commands greater respect across the electorate, the opposition could raise issues and arguments that could influence Johnson. Corbyn commanded such low regard from the electorate that even when he raised good arguments the public ignored it. Even though Johnson might have the majority to get his commandments passed in Parliament, a better opposition might make presenting those commandments bad PR for Johnson/Conservatives. more public outcry just because the electorate public is listening to the opposition leader. And more more often that happens the more worried Conservative MPs will be getting about their re-election prospects.

Or course Ms Long-Bailey might get the leadership post in which case Johnson has no constraints for the many many years she clings to leadership (like Corbyn did).

Ian

pete75
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Re: The next Labour Leader

Postby pete75 » 19 Feb 2020, 6:46pm

Psamathe wrote:
pete75 wrote:
al_yrpal wrote:I have watched and listened to the various candidates and not been confident that any of them can lead an effective opposition that could be a credible alternative to the Tories. Its very sad.

Unfortunately, under the present system if your vote isnt for Labour or the Tories its largely a wasted vote. The system need to change.

Al


Cummins, via his puppet Johnson, is our master for the next five years at least. There is an 80+ majority so there's little if anything an opposition party can do to oppose his rule. They can't even question the man in parliament because he's not a member of it.

But with a better (than Corbyn) leader who commands greater respect across the electorate, the opposition could raise issues and arguments that could influence Johnson. Corbyn commanded such low regard from the electorate that even when he raised good arguments the public ignored it. Even though Johnson might have the majority to get his commandments passed in Parliament, a better opposition might make presenting those commandments bad PR for Johnson/Conservatives. more public outcry just because the electorate public is listening to the opposition leader. And more more often that happens the more worried Conservative MPs will be getting about their re-election prospects.

Or course Ms Long-Bailey might get the leadership post in which case Johnson has no constraints for the many many years she clings to leadership (like Corbyn did).

Ian


Yes and how will the opposition leader be heard? Certainly not in the largely Conservative controlled press nor on the cowed BBC. Cummins has little to fear from the opposition as long as his policies continue to pander to the right wing populist views held by 40%+ of the electorate. No opposition leader would get any plaudits for attacking those sort of policies nor would they get any for standing up for the rights of immigrants.
Cummins is clever enough to have a few policies to make the new Tory voters in the so called left behind areas think something is being done for them so cutting off another line of opposition attack.
Remember that since Labour collapsed in Scotland the Tories don't even need 40% of the vote to win an election.

Oldjohnw
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Re: The next Labour Leader

Postby Oldjohnw » 19 Feb 2020, 6:58pm

Whilst it might be expected that the Labour will want someone with great policies and a sure win at the 2024 GE, what they - and the country - need now is a credible leader of Her Majesty's Opposition. That is, someone who can hold their opposite number properly to account.
John

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NATURAL ANKLING
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Re: The next Labour Leader

Postby NATURAL ANKLING » 20 Feb 2020, 11:07am

Hi,
Like him or loathe him makes no difference who said it.
"Nothing less than a born again' head to toe renewal will do "
That's been said for some time now by many people.
But we fear that they will not get the message and will roll out just another mould of previous leaders?
NA Thinks Just End 2 End Return + Bivvy
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Please forgive the poor Grammar I blame it on my mobile and phat thinkers.

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al_yrpal
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Re: The next Labour Leader

Postby al_yrpal » 20 Feb 2020, 11:24am

Oldjohnw wrote:Whilst it might be expected that the Labour will want someone with great policies and a sure win at the 2024 GE, what they - and the country - need now is a credible leader of Her Majesty's Opposition. That is, someone who can hold their opposite number properly to account.


Well yes, but surely more important is someone who will clearly make an exceptional leader with policies that have widespread public support, something the Labour Party seems to have almost completely forgotten about.
As for Boris's alleged puppet master we have been here before. It started in earnest with New Labour. Weak leaders seem to be the norm nowadays. A regretable development in modern British politics.

Al
Touring on a bicycle is a great way to explore and appreciate the countryside and towns you pass through. Make a difference...

PH
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Re: The next Labour Leader

Postby PH » 20 Feb 2020, 11:35am

NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
Like him or loathe him makes no difference who said it.
"Nothing less than a born again' head to toe renewal will do "
That's been said for some time now by many people.
But we fear that they will not get the message and will roll out just another mould of previous leaders?

I don't wish to come across as a defeat denier, but look at the numbers. The idea that everything was wrong and that no one supported the Labour Party in the last election is clearly not accurate. A bit of a swing back to Labour once Brexit is out of the way, a little bit more if the leader doesn't get vilified in the press, and who knows what the result would be.
I saw Corbyn speak twice in the leadership campaign, his big theme was to end the Tory imposed austerity, turns out Boris agreed with him :roll:

PH
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Re: The next Labour Leader

Postby PH » 20 Feb 2020, 11:38am

al_yrpal wrote:... policies that have widespread public support, something the Labour Party seems to have almost completely forgotten about.
Al

Which policies are not popular?
here's a YouGov survey

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... why-arent-

pwa
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Re: The next Labour Leader

Postby pwa » 20 Feb 2020, 11:40am

PH wrote:
NATURAL ANKLING wrote:Hi,
Like him or loathe him makes no difference who said it.
"Nothing less than a born again' head to toe renewal will do "
That's been said for some time now by many people.
But we fear that they will not get the message and will roll out just another mould of previous leaders?

I don't wish to come across as a defeat denier, but look at the numbers. The idea that everything was wrong and that no one supported the Labour Party in the last election is clearly not accurate. A bit of a swing back to Labour once Brexit is out of the way, a little bit more if the leader doesn't get vilified in the press, and who knows what the result would be.
I saw Corbyn speak twice in the leadership campaign, his big theme was to end the Tory imposed austerity, turns out Boris agreed with him :roll:

If Boris goes into spend mode it will present Labour with an extra problem next time.

Do you think there are any parts of Corbyn's last manifesto that should have been left out? Lots of us think Labour promised far too much. Lots of good things, but too many to be credible. What if anything would you wish they had shelved?

pete75
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Re: The next Labour Leader

Postby pete75 » 20 Feb 2020, 11:42am

al_yrpal wrote:
Oldjohnw wrote:Whilst it might be expected that the Labour will want someone with great policies and a sure win at the 2024 GE, what they - and the country - need now is a credible leader of Her Majesty's Opposition. That is, someone who can hold their opposite number properly to account.


Well yes, but surely more important is someone who will clearly make an exceptional leader with policies that have widespread public support, something the Labour Party seems to have almost completely forgotten about.
As for Boris's alleged puppet master we have been here before. It started in earnest with New Labour. Weak leaders seem to be the norm nowadays. A regretable development in modern British politics.

Al

Tony Blair was hardly a weak leader.

PH
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Re: The next Labour Leader

Postby PH » 20 Feb 2020, 11:47am

pwa wrote:Do you think there are any parts of Corbyn's last manifesto that should have been left out? Lots of us think Labour promised far too much. Lots of good things, but too many to be credible. What if anything would you wish they had shelved?

Yes, too much in it to be credible. Yet offhand I can't think of anything specific that I'd disagree with. I'd have prioritised a few policies and stuck to them. The problem with that is you'll get asked "what about X" and then portrayed as weak and incompetent if you don't have an answer. Well unless you''re the press darling of course.
Free broadband for all got a lot of panning, yet I read a cost benefit analysis for it and it made good sense. Far more so than Boris bridges, which don't get anything like the same ridicule in the press.