5000 Britain First extremists join Tory Party

[pete75]

Anyone who's fooled into considering that's genuine should look up the constituency and the Tory party chairman.
I don't know what the purpose of posting it was, but doing so without an explanation and knowing it was false just adds to the disinformation.

That is a fake picture. The one I posted of Paul Golding's membership isn't.

I haven't commented on that Pete, did you think I had?
I'll take it at face value, I could speculate on how I think that came about and the likelihood of him getting through the period before he's eligible to vote, but there seems little point as we'll see how the story develops without such guesswork.

No I didn't think you had. I was merely pointing out that some far right folk had genuinely joined the party. Of course lots of less high profile supporters of Paul Golding and Tommy Robinson will doubtless be following their examples and joining. I wonder how you'll defend that?

Are you one of the folk who"lent" Johnson his vote?

[Tao]

[PH]

No I didn't think you had. I was merely pointing out that some far right folk had genuinely joined the party. Of course lots of less high profile supporters of Paul Golding and Tommy Robinson will doubtless be following their examples and joining. I wonder how you'll defend that?

Are you one of the folk who"lent" Johnson his vote?

hang on a sec... we've been here before. Please don't assign opinions to me unless I've expressed them. You won't find me defending any fascist here or anywhere else, nor will you find me supporting the Tory party here or anywhere else, if the idea wasn't so laughable it'd be offensive.
Wasn't it you telling me how wrong I was when I said that the Get Brexit Done message was popular with the voters I was talking to? There's a difference between reporting something and supporting it, do you still think I was wrong? On this thread, what I've suggested is that we stick to the facts, more particularly not to post speculation as fact, go re read what I've written if in doubt. How do you get from that to me being an apologist for them? Seriously give me an answer to that, or at the very least stop stating it as if it were a fact.
If you've any doubt about the way political disinformation works I can point you to some well researched articles, bigging up a case to knock it down is a common technique.

[Polisman]

What is it about the current Tory party which is attracting large numbers of extreme right fascists and islamophobes to its membership? Riddle me this, instead of dancing about on the fence lobbing brickbats.

The fascists have answered that themselves, it's in several of the links in this thread, there's no mystery to it. As I've been saying since the first page, that's the story we should be concentrating on, rather than the speculation about who has or hasn't joined the Tory party.
Now I've answered your question - why not answer why you posted an image you knew to be fake?

Oh I'm sorry, I just posted an image that came from the fake news website you linked to. Fake news generally tends to follow = fake images. This one I believe: https://scramnews.com/tommy-robinson-fa ... ship-card/

When you can link to credible sources (like the Guardian, the sole European recipient on the Snowden files) and not some blog style fake news to back up your 'argument', then perhaps your posts won't seem so, what's the word? Irrelevant. In the meantime I'll treat every post you make online with the utmost scepticism.

Like I said, you have gone down in my estimation by linking to such arrant nonsense. The onus is on you to recover some modicum of dignity. And you find it odd that you are regularly offended on this forum? You are too readily offended, but that's no excuse for being an apologist for these sort of fake news, trashy blogs.

[PH]

Oh I'm sorry, I just posted an image that came from the fake news website you linked to. Fake news generally tends to follow = fake images.

You've copied it from a site which highlighted the inaccuracies on it, you've copied it across without that information. Your's isn't an honest agenda.

When you can link to credible sources (like the Guardian, the sole European recipient on the Snowden files) and not some blog style fake news to back up your 'argument', then perhaps your posts won't seem so, what's the word? Irrelevant. In the meantime I'll treat every post you make online with the utmost scepticism.

You are reporting as a fact that TR has definitely become a member of the Tory Party, none of those credible sources are. It's dishonest.

[Polisman]

Oh I'm sorry, I just posted an image that came from the fake news website you linked to. Fake news generally tends to follow = fake images.

You've copied it from a site which highlighted the inaccuracies on it, you've copied it across without that information. Your's isn't an honest agenda.

I'm merely reporting that the Guardian has reported that Tommy Robinson has stated he has full Tory party membership as of the 13th of December, and no Tory party or cchq rebuttal had been forthcoming. Readers of the forum can draw their own conclusions from that. Your denials hardly matter.

It's your link, not mine. I reference the Guardian in my OP, you are referencing a fake news online blog. What kind of credibility can you expect now? Your argument is unlikely to convince anyone. And you still haven't provided an answer to my question? Why are so many extreme right racists and islamophobes attracted to membership of the Tory party?

[PH]

Oh I'm sorry, I just posted an image that came from the fake news website you linked to. Fake news generally tends to follow = fake images.

You've copied it from a site which highlighted the inaccuracies on it, you've copied it across without that information. Your's isn't an honest agenda.

And yours is unlikely to convince anyone. And you still haven't provided an answer to my question? Why are so many extreme right racists and islamophobes attracted to membership of the Tory party?

Just which part of the answer did you not understand? In their own words, from the Guardian link you posted at the start of this thread

Britain First’s spokeswoman, Ashlea Simon, who was among senior figures recently investigated by counter-terrorism police, said: “We will support a party that is willing to take a firm stance against radical Islam and it looks like the Tories are willing to do that.”

[Polisman]

You've copied it from a site which highlighted the inaccuracies on it, you've copied it across without that information. Your's isn't an honest agenda.

And yours is unlikely to convince anyone. And you still haven't provided an answer to my question? Why are so many extreme right racists and islamophobes attracted to membership of the Tory party?

Just which part of the answer did you not understand? In their own words, from the Guardian link you posted at the start of this thread

Britain First’s spokeswoman, Ashlea Simon, who was among senior figures recently investigated by counter-terrorism police, said: “We will support a party that is willing to take a firm stance against radical Islam and it looks like the Tories are willing to do that.”

That's no answer at all and you know it. What's your answer, we're all on tenterhooks to be informed by your wisdom? If you think I'm going to let you off with a persistent sitting on the fence stance, you can think again.

[PH]

And yours is unlikely to convince anyone. And you still haven't provided an answer to my question? Why are so many extreme right racists and islamophobes attracted to membership of the Tory party?

Just which part of the answer did you not understand? In their own words, from the Guardian link you posted at the start of this thread

Britain First’s spokeswoman, Ashlea Simon, who was among senior figures recently investigated by counter-terrorism police, said: “We will support a party that is willing to take a firm stance against radical Islam and it looks like the Tories are willing to do that.”

That's no answer at all and you know it. What's your answer, we're all on tenterhooks to know it?

You've asked why they're attracted to the Tory Party, my answer is for the reasons they've given. What other answer could their be?

[PH]

Sc(r)am news, that haven of truth, probity and opacity vs the Guardian,

Does the Guardian say Robinson has definitely joined the Tory Party? If you show me where, I'll go and correct my post.

I've been looking, nobody says he has, they just report he claims he has...

And to roll back a touch, still nothing to substantiate your claim, other than the word of TR himself, which you seem happy to accept.

[Spinners]

I really think people should take this story with a pinch of salt. Britain First doesn’t have 5,000 members. Not now, not ever.

Nick Lowles

Hmm but what about the 2 million Facebook followers they had?

It's 2 million 'likes' not followers - not quite the same thing.

[Polisman]

Nick Lowles

Hmm but what about the 2 million Facebook followers they had?

It's 2 million 'likes' not followers - not quite the same thing.

2 Million is rather a lot in any case, don't you think? It's at least 2 million have visited the page and found it an attractive ideology.

[PH]

It seems clear to me and doubtless to anyone else reading this thread that you do not care to be taken seriously. Therefore I shan't engage further. If you think your own opinion is so worthless, that you deny to share it with the forum, then there's absolutely no point continuing a serious, grown up debate with you.

I'm at a complete loss. You post something that no one else is reporting (Edit - other than TR) and are unable to provide a source.
I answer a question with a quote from those involved in the action, reported by what you call a credible source.
And your opinion is that I'm not involved in a grown up debate.
The one thing you're right about is people will make up their own mind.

[pete75]

No I didn't think you had. I was merely pointing out that some far right folk had genuinely joined the party. Of course lots of less high profile supporters of Paul Golding and Tommy Robinson will doubtless be following their examples and joining. I wonder how you'll defend that?

Are you one of the folk who"lent" Johnson his vote?

hang on a sec... we've been here before. Please don't assign opinions to me unless I've expressed them. You won't find me defending any fascist here or anywhere else, nor will you find me supporting the Tory party here or anywhere else, if the idea wasn't so laughable it'd be offensive.
Wasn't it you telling me how wrong I was when I said that the Get Brexit Done message was popular with the voters I was talking to? There's a difference between reporting something and supporting it, do you still think I was wrong? On this thread, what I've suggested is that we stick to the facts, more particularly not to post speculation as fact, go re read what I've written if in doubt. How do you get from that to me being an apologist for them? Seriously give me an answer to that, or at the very least stop stating it as if it were a fact.
If you've any doubt about the way political disinformation works I can point you to some well researched articles, bigging up a case to knock it down is a common technique.

I told you that? I think not.

As I said before Some things you've posted make you appear a Tory supporter others don't.

You appear a Tory apologist in that you seem to be defending the Tory party on whether or not they allow defectors from right wing parties to become members and remain so. Clearly in the case of Paul Golding they have allowed him to join. They may expel him but that remains to be seen.
Here In Lincolnshire the Highways cabinet member on the County Council was a BNP member in 2008, as was SKDC's Environment cabinet member. Far from expelling them for their far right link the party has actually raised them to high local office. Both have been in the Conservative party for some years now. For all I know they may well have been in the BNP after 2008 but that is the latest year for which I have a spreadsheet with name, address and party status of all members.

[PH]

You appear a Tory apologist in that you seem to be defending the Tory party on whether or not they allow defectors from right wing parties to become members and remain so.

In reply to rehon2 earlier today, I made my position clear, I don't think I've anything to add. If you read into that, that I'm defending or supporting the Tory Party there's not much I can do about it other than laugh at the absurdity. There's a fair bit we don't agree on, but that doesn't necessarily put us on different sides.

Not wanting to get into the arguement,but TBH if TR had attempted to join the Tory part,you'd think the party would offer some sort denial if he isn't a member.That would sort out the problem of speculation

It's Christmas, it's only been a couple of weeks, they've had more important things to do like flogging the NHS...
I suspect they really don't care, nothing else has harmed them, why would this? They don't need this support and they'll probably at some point decide they're better off without it, but why would it be a priority to them? It's a distraction from the real harm they're doing.
There is a story here, it's well covered by the Guardian, going beyond that can do more harm than good.

And then

PH,Ben@forest
I can accept that explanation,but again with something as potentially explosive you'd think the Tory party would have someone on the case,or even say they have someone on the case,or put out a press release saying that such people as TR(or whatever alias he goes by this week)aren't welcome in 'the one nation Tory party'

Do you think this is any more explosive than all the stuff that bounced off them in the election campaign? The stuff that the forum's master of predictions was shouting would ensure Boris didn't get a majority.
Then there's the conspiracy theory - The bigger you let a story get, the harder it falls, then the less likely the next story will grow... I'm not saying this is the case, but it ought to be considered, it is the way much of the disinformation over the last couple of years has worked. I believe if you want to campaign for something then the right way to do so is by sticking to the truth, if your XYZ can be proved to be wrong, no one is going to believe your ABC.
The story here is that the current Tory Party appeals to the the far right fascist organisations in this country, we should keep repeating that story. The Tory policies appeal to fascists, the fascists are saying so.